www.iFourWinns.com

Dedicated to Current and Future Owners
It is currently Sat May 03, 2025 1:22 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:40 pm 
Offline
Starfish

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:35 am
Posts: 53
Location: Prince William, VA
On my 2003 268 Vista, the Generator isn't equipped with a sound shield. The noise emitted into the aft/mid-cabin by the generator is unbearable. I was thinking about either making a custom enclosure myself for the generator (taking into consideration airflow, etc.), having one custom built, or possibly lining the engine compartment with additional sound proofing.

Does anyone know what type of sound proofing material Four Winns used originally? Any thoughts on where I can obtain some reasonably priced sound proofing material rated for engine compartment use?

I was quoted around $1070 for a custom made "soft shield" by Great Southern Insulation. Additional measurements would be necessary though to ensure proper clearances. I'd hate to have to spend that sort of money when perhaps there are some off the shelf solutions available for less.

_________________
Current Boat:
2006 Chaparral 310 Signature

Previous:
2003 268 Vista
2004 Sea Doo GTX


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:47 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:07 am
Posts: 815
Location: Freeland, MI
Have yo looked into the sound shield from Kohler? Im pretty sure the 5E had an optional sound shield

_________________
Jeff

'14 Cruisers 380 Express "Simon Sez"
Merc 8.2 Mag MPI 380
DTS B3X, (x2) Axius Premier


(SOLD)
'08 V318
Merc 350 Mag MPI 300
DTS Seacore, B3 (x2)

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:48 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:21 am
Posts: 5667
Location: Austin, TX
I'm not sure how it's installed but you could put some dynamat all over the interior walls.

_________________
1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:51 pm 
Offline
Starfish

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:35 am
Posts: 53
Location: Prince William, VA
Yep, sure did. Called a Kohler authorized dealer and they informed me that because the Kohler 5E on my boat is no longer in production, the cost is close to $1,300.00, and this is the cost passed down from Kohler. Ouch!! :shock:

_________________
Current Boat:
2006 Chaparral 310 Signature

Previous:
2003 268 Vista
2004 Sea Doo GTX


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:55 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:07 am
Posts: 815
Location: Freeland, MI
Just thinking outloud, do you think if you put another layer of some sort of insulation on the inside of the aft berth, under the existing vinyl to keep the same look, would that help. That way your not dealing with all the hoses and wiring ect on the other side of the bulkhead.

_________________
Jeff

'14 Cruisers 380 Express "Simon Sez"
Merc 8.2 Mag MPI 380
DTS B3X, (x2) Axius Premier


(SOLD)
'08 V318
Merc 350 Mag MPI 300
DTS Seacore, B3 (x2)

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:14 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:03 pm
Posts: 231
Location: East Tennesee
I have a 5ECD and its mounted near the mid berth wall, I have the sound shield and ts still pretty loud, especially in the V-berth. In the cockpit you cant even hear it, but in the cabin its there, it annoys the heck out of me but doesnt bother my wife/kids. I took off the sound shield when doing the oil/impeller change and honestly it wasnt that much different (not as much as you would think) in the cabin so I left it off since its kind of a PITA to install and remove. Not sure if I would invest $1000.00+ on a new Kohler shield, have seen them pop up on forums used but not often. Maybe something custom with better insulation would work but thats kinda pricy.

I was going to try some better insulation on the mid berth wall but its pretty well insulated with some kind of heavy foam/vinyl with the foam egg crate stuff on top of that s I'm not sure how much more I can do with that. It seems louder all the way forward so it may be resonating somewhere other that the engine compartment.

FWIW one of my neighbors has a westerbeke in a 255 Bayliner and its about 1/2 as loud with no sound shield, they run at 1/2 the RPM as the Kohlers. Doesnt do me (or you) any good but food for thought when shopping for the next generator equipped boat.

Quick edit:

When I was looking into quieting mine down I found a lot of people say its not the noise from the genset that was bothering me, but the low frequency 'rumble' which is mostly caused by the vibration of bolting it to a wooden box. Thats why the sound shield didnt make much difference to me, supposedly some larger hydraulic type insulating mounts or something similar would make a bigger difference. If you are hearing mechanical engine or high frequency whine from the electrical part the sound shield may help you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:46 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:21 am
Posts: 5667
Location: Austin, TX
That "eggshell" foam is the worst sound insulation known to man. It's not doing anything, first stage is I'd replace that with a proper acoustical foam or dynamat type product. Probably both.

_________________
1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:03 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:02 pm
Posts: 159
Location: Connecticut shore
Allow me to weigh in on this. I've never had a genny on my boat, so I can't say how loud they are when in operation--I imagine they're fairly loud though....there are a couple issues to consider when dealing with sound proofing a noisy area. By the way I'm a professional recording engineer and have also designed a few studios in my career. First thing to understand when going about soundproofing something is that most add-on foam-such as the type found in boat engine compartments really just slightly deadens the high frequencies being generated--just sort of "muffling" the sound. What is happening when the generator is running is that it creates a lot of lower frequencies which tend to work their way through everything--they are considered "longer" sound waves and are more difficult to treat. So, the best way to treat the low frequencies is by decoupling the source. How are boat generators mounted? Are they mounted on rubber motor-style engine mounts? If it is possible, I would suggest putting a piece of 1" thick neoprene under the entire genny--mounts and all. (neoprene is a very dense rubber material. It is used in recording studios to "float" a floor-that is the floor joists will rest on small neoprene pucks placed every 12-16" on each joist, thereby decoupling it from a concrete slab floor and reducing any vibrations coming from below for example)-- This will decouple the unit from the boat, thereby cutting down on those low frequency vibrations. The size of the boat matters, too. A genny on a 26' boat will probably always be noisy no matter what you do. West Marine sells that engine compartment sound proofing material that manufacturers put on the inside on their motor boxes.......try some of that. But I would see if you could add some thick neoprene under the genny to decouple it from the boat. Good luck.....hope this helps.

_________________
"For My 50th"
1996 238 Vista
5.7VolvoGL DP
Previous boats; 91 Cobia 19' Cuddy, 87 Starcraft 16' BR,
67 Winner BR, 65 Arrow 14'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:21 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:14 pm
Posts: 645
Location: Lower Trent Ontario, Canada
I'd climb into the aft cabin with the main engine running in gear under light load, say around 1,500 RPM and check the sound level. If it's quiet, it's not an insulation issue. Time to look at the way the genny is mounted.

_________________
07 Azure AZ200,
Previous boat,
95 278 Vista,
And a lot of others.

Ontario, Canada


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:38 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 2866
Location: Indiana
Have you tried sleeping with it on? Or just during the day time? I had no issues on my 268, and it was quite loud. Either nice and comfy with the genny running, or no air and piece and quiet.

_________________
2007 358 T-5.7GXi IB
Previous Boats
'08 H240, '08 V318, '04 268, '04 225


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:55 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:03 pm
Posts: 231
Location: East Tennesee
boater50 wrote:
Allow me to weigh in on this. I've never had a genny on my boat, so I can't say how loud they are when in operation--I imagine they're fairly loud though....there are a couple issues to consider when dealing with sound proofing a noisy area. By the way I'm a professional recording engineer and have also designed a few studios in my career. First thing to understand when going about soundproofing something is that most add-on foam-such as the type found in boat engine compartments really just slightly deadens the high frequencies being generated--just sort of "muffling" the sound. What is happening when the generator is running is that it creates a lot of lower frequencies which tend to work their way through everything--they are considered "longer" sound waves and are more difficult to treat. So, the best way to treat the low frequencies is by decoupling the source. How are boat generators mounted? Are they mounted on rubber motor-style engine mounts? If it is possible, I would suggest putting a piece of 1" thick neoprene under the entire genny--mounts and all. (neoprene is a very dense rubber material. It is used in recording studios to "float" a floor-that is the floor joists will rest on small neoprene pucks placed every 12-16" on each joist, thereby decoupling it from a concrete slab floor and reducing any vibrations coming from below for example)-- This will decouple the unit from the boat, thereby cutting down on those low frequency vibrations. The size of the boat matters, too. A genny on a 26' boat will probably always be noisy no matter what you do. West Marine sells that engine compartment sound proofing material that manufacturers put on the inside on their motor boxes.......try some of that. But I would see if you could add some thick neoprene under the genny to decouple it from the boat. Good luck.....hope this helps.



They use engine type rubber mounts but they are pretty stiff. The enclosure is metal with a really dense insulation inside of it and like I said it really doesnt change the in-cabin rumble sound much. The genset pretty much bolted to a giant empty box (the engine compartment) and its more vibration than the noise being put out by the generator itself. The kohler is a two cylinder V, not exactly silky smooth at 3000+rpm under load. They make some hydraulic (fluid damped) type mounts but they are 80.00 each and require some fabrication. Not easy manhandling around a 225lb generator in a cramped engine compartment.

Its funny because my wife and kids dont pay any attention to it but it drives me up a wall. Not much choice on hot days or in the evening when the humidity is insane and you have to run the AC, earplugs are cheap :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:41 pm 
Offline
Minnow

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:45 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Holland, MI
Go on the internet to http://www.mcmaster.com and look up soundproofing. They have a chart that you can use. It will be a lot less expensive if you do it yourself. I have used their soundproofing to build test chambers for semi air horns so I have personal experience.
Good luck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:57 pm 
Offline
Starfish

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:35 am
Posts: 53
Location: Prince William, VA
Thanks for all the input so far! The sound does appear to be more of a vibration noise that comes from the floor. The generator sits on the starboard side. I believe the noise is being transmitted right through the stringer directly into the aft cabin where you place your head (head starboard side, feet facing port). I like the idea of using some sort of decoupling material to try to minimize the transfer of the vibration.

Maybe doing that along with some additional sound proofing in the engine compartment and/or behind the aft-cabin vinyl will reduce the noise to bearable levels.

I've tried sleeping in the aft cabin twice over the summer when we were off the hook and needed to run the generator. The sound was just unbearable for my wife and me. If I could just take it down a couple of notches I think we'll be happy campers.

By the way, ear plugs sound like a pretty good idea too!!

_________________
Current Boat:
2006 Chaparral 310 Signature

Previous:
2003 268 Vista
2004 Sea Doo GTX


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:41 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:33 am
Posts: 1026
Wish you luck on getting the noise under control, I don't gave a gen on my boat but I am interested as to what you come up with so keep us posted. While your at it check those batteries on the CO detectors it can't hurt. Good luck


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Soundproofing needed
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:42 am 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:03 pm
Posts: 231
Location: East Tennesee
Backdraft wrote:
Thanks for all the input so far! The sound does appear to be more of a vibration noise that comes from the floor. The generator sits on the starboard side. I believe the noise is being transmitted right through the stringer directly into the aft cabin where you place your head (head starboard side, feet facing port). I like the idea of using some sort of decoupling material to try to minimize the transfer of the vibration.

Maybe doing that along with some additional sound proofing in the engine compartment and/or behind the aft-cabin vinyl will reduce the noise to bearable levels.

I've tried sleeping in the aft cabin twice over the summer when we were off the hook and needed to run the generator. The sound was just unbearable for my wife and me. If I could just take it down a couple of notches I think we'll be happy campers.

By the way, ear plugs sound like a pretty good idea too!!


Its funny because my generator is mounted about a foot from the mid berth wall in front of the engine and its louder all the way in front of the boat. Its definitely traveling through somewhere and getting amplified. It bothered me for a while but I usually dont sleep with the generator running, I shut it off around 2-3am and it stays comfortable until we wake up. I think the only real cure is a bigger boat :)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group