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It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11726		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  LtDan [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
I finally got to take my "new" boat out, had a blast. It ran great but the batteries (2007 Optima's) weren't holding a charge well, so new batteries are in. Dash gauge indicates just over 10 volts charging when underway, GPS says 12.6 to 12.9, still too low, should be 13.5- 14. On shore power, indicates 13.6 so probably looking at an alternator.

Second time out, still runs great, try the windlass but only get a tick like a relay when operating it from the dashboard switch. The foot buttons by the windlass do nothing. Checked the fuse, it is good. I'll be back at the boat this weekend and will have the manual for the windlass, but is there anything else I should check first?

Also on that trip, the vacu-flush toilet decided not to. I think it may be a clog issue, the previous owner had non rv toilet paper in the head and I believe my 5 year old niece was the last one to use the toilet. If you let it sit, it will flush a time or two properly, then it acts like there is no vacuum. I put a bottle of the stuff that is supposed to break waste and paper down with a gallon of water prior to leaving on Sunday.

Third time out fueled it for the first time (yikes!). Boat ran like it was towing another boat after. Would run grudgingly up to 3000 rpm, then really fall on its face. I suspected I may have stirred up crap/water in the tank since the boat sat for nearly two years. I opened it up, it eventually got moving but nothing over 36 mph (on gps) and wouldn't pull on the top end. First two times out would run right up to 38-41mph and felt surprisingly strong the whole way.

All the filters were allegedly changed prior to winterization, but I'm going to start there. Any other ideas? Oh, I put a bottle of gas treatment in once we got back.

All things considered, what a lot of fun! My daughter absolutely loves it, which makes it all worthwhile.

Thanks all, I've done a ton of searching and answered a lot of questions already. A lot of good folks and good help on here.

Dan
Author:  Technologic80 [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
1.) The dash gauge can be notoriously inaccurate. I agree that the volts that your GPS is reading is too low. Before you go rebuilding/replacing the alternator remember the old acronym KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). :mrgreen: Check the leads on the back of the alternator, reports of a broken wire or bad connections at the battery have lead to the same problem you are having.

2.) Dont know anything about windlasses. I would check up at the windlass for 12+ volts while somebody presses the switch.

3.) I know nothing about vacu-flushes, sorry.

4.) Change the fuel/water seperator and check/clean your spark arrestor. Check all of the tune up items for age/wear. Possible you got some bad gas, assuming this problem popped up right after you fueled up. Could also be a coincidence.
Author:  weather [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
In addition to the above...

1. Where is the GPS power wired taken from? If it's from the dash, you could get low readings due to voltage drop along the circuit. If this is the case, the GPS could be accurate (at the dash voltage) and the gauge not accurate (common), but at the battery you might have the 14.4V you want from the alternator. The only way to find out is the check the voltage with a multimeter directly on the battery with the engine running. My dash never says more than 12VDC when running, and ~10VDC with the engines and chargers off.

2. The windlass 12V motor could be fried, mine was when I got my boat. The clicking is the relay for the windlass, which enables the 12DC motor to run in both directions by reversing the polarity. Check to see if you have a separate breaker just for the windlass near the battery switches. It's possible that the relay and the motor run on different circuits (much different currents involved).

3. Does the vacuum pump stop running 30 seconds or less after you flush? If so, that means it thinks it's getting vacuum so it could be a clog, but that doesn't sound right if it works a couple of times, then doesn't. If the pump continues to run and never shuts off (you should be able to hear it) then it's not reaching vacuum, which can be caused by old duck bill valves, bad bellows, bad vacuum switch, or a leak in the line from the head to the vacuum generator. The other possible issue is a kinked hose, which happens when the hose goes around a sharp corner, or the vacuum causes the hose to 'implode' on itself.
A place to start would be to let us know the behavior of the vacuum pump (when it runs, for how long, when it stops, etc)

4. I have nothing to add to #4, but would start with the fuel filters.

Good luck!

Steve.
Author:  jgreve75 [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
I second the suggestion to check all your tune up items. I bought a 17ft bowrider a few years back that ran awesome the first time out but not so much the second time we took it out, and the only thing we did the first day was put fuel in it. We thought the same thing... "We must have gotten bad fuel/stirred up crap in the tank". Long story short, after looking for a fuel problem for the next few weekends and going through the fuel system from one end to the other and replacing everything and adding a fuel water separator and still having a problem with it running like crap under load, I happened to notice by accident that the coil was super hot. Duh... one new set of points later and problem solved. Also did a full tune up at the same time to avoid any further issues, but I could have saved three weeks of boating by just doing the tune-up right out of the gate...and I knew better, but she ran SO good that first day!
Author:  ric [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
Read the voltage at the battery. The dash gauge has 15ft of thin gauge wire going to it. Its going to have a minimum 1 volt loss on its reading. Its purpose is to just tell you if charging or not.
Author:  Rick2752 [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
I can tell you how to take the motor out. Lol. Mine hasn't run long enough to have problems yet. :lol:
Author:  jsimon [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
Check this out on the vaccuflush

http://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9718


the windlass switch on the dash controls a contactor most likely in the anchor locker. YOu can remove the mirror in the v berth and open the deck hatch to access it. Its tight to be sure.

I dont know where your at or how long the boat has been in, but with our last boat (03 268) I left it in too long with no bottom paint, and the growth on the bottom was enough to make you thik the engine was only running on 4 cylinders it was such a dog. Probably not the case here though
Author:  Paul I. [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
Four Winns is known to use wire that are too small & non-marine/not tinned wire. As someone else mentioned, causing a voltage drop. I really noticed it with the cabin lighting. I had to go with LEDs and in some cases, rewired, as to the fuse box on my old boat.
Author:  LtDan [ Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
Thanks all! I'll be there tomorrow and begin the quest of having everything working correctly at the same time....
Author:  jfair [ Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
Your windlass may be broken or have a wiring issue but just checking that you run the engine when using it? Much better than relying on batteries to activate and run the motor.
Author:  298VISTA2000 [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
LtDan wrote:
Second time out, still runs great, try the windlass but only get a tick like a relay when operating it from the dashboard switch. The foot buttons by the windlass do nothing.


As a previous poster stated, try the windlass breaker that is located next to your battery switches. If that does not work, manually lower your windlass a little and then see if it will go up. If so, then your dual direction solenoid (photo below) is bad and needs replacing. If it turns out that the windlass motor is bad, you can have them re-built for $75 as opposed to buying a whole new one ($600).

Lewmar Dual Direction Solenoid
Image

Quote:
Also on that trip, the vacu-flush toilet decided not to. I think it may be a clog issue, the previous owner had non rv toilet paper in the head and I believe my 5 year old niece was the last one to use the toilet. If you let it sit, it will flush a time or two properly, then it acts like there is no vacuum.


Go buy yourself a small plunger, shut off the water pump, push down foot pedal and plunge away. Also, put about a 1/2 cup of vegetable oil in it every now and then and that will help the duck bills seal better.

Image
Author:  LtDan [ Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
Still an experience!

Got the boat out twice, a new alternator and now it's a turn key operation. The toilet worked for a couple flushes, then no vacuum. I put the rest of the bottle of chemical in it, I'll try the plunger and veggie oil. If that doesn't do it she is coming apart. On a side note... be careful removing the large line going to the macerator, it is apparently under pressure and you will be sprayed with whatever is in the line. Don't ask..

Still won't pull over three thousand rpm (at least not quickly or easily). They only had one fuel filter, had to order the smaller one that is close to the engine. They are going to put that in and take the boat out for a run, I can't get back there for ten days. It did creep past 3k a couple times, then ran right up to 4800rmp and30-40 mph on the gps. Acts like it is starving for fuel, hopefully a filter-fix.

The outdrive trim gauge has decided to join the toilet in not working, we were getting bounce around on the lake a bit. Hopefully there is an easy fix for that.

Great times though!
Author:  Ontfarmer [ Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
Re the windlass- we could not get ours working - on a new to us boat - same clicking as you spoke of - until we changed the battery setting to parallel. It clearly was a voltage problem - the CO2 detectors also were going off - which i believe is a indication of low voltage. We replaced one battery - which the seller and i knew was poor ( split cost) and has been fine since. The voltage on the GPS while running is also in low 13's - maybe this is standard?

good news is that we just returned from 19 days on an extended canal/ river cruise ( eastern Ontario) and things worked very well , no problems and are so far sure we made the right decision in this 268.
Author:  LtDan [ Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It's been an experience, 268 Vista help needed
Update... Toilet was fixed with Costco Enviromentally friendly dish soap. It got everything flowing and flushing! The 3k rpm issue cleared up, then after my next fill up was immediatly back for a short period. Mechanic said it is likely the check valve in fuel fill sticking, which is creating a vapor lock situation. It does feel like it is starving for fuel when it is acting up.

Battery issue is ongoing, need a good schematic for how it is supposed to be wired, I started a new thread for that issue.

Thanks all!!
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