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238 Vista Charging
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Author:  LVChris [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  238 Vista Charging
Sorry for the newbie type question and I feel like a fool for even posting it. But for some reason I just can't wrap my head around this.

So I bought my 1996 238 used a couple years ago, and I do the maintenance that I can (I am no mechanic) and pay a great guy to do the rest. I live in Las Vegas, where HOA's rule the roost and almost no one can have a boat this size at their house so I keep her drydocked near the lake. The weather here has been terrible, well nice most of the week...then raining and windy all weekend. So that has kept me off my boat for 5 weeks now. I am a little worried that things will start to go wrong if I don't get her wet soon.
Rain or shine this weekend I am going to drag her home and clean her up and try to make sure everything works.

Last time I was out I switched the battery switch to 2 (it was an even day) and the ignition just clicked. I switched over to 1 and she started right up. Later on I switched to both hoping it would charge the low battery (was that right?) At the end of the day the weather got nasty and I didn't get a chance to check what was wrong.

So I will check the terminals first...but I want to make sure that the batteries (all 3) are charged. So here is the newbie question. How do I check them? If they are low and I plug into my AC at my house through the shore power cord how long should it take to charge them? And will it charge all 3? I have a backround in electronics (I mostly fixed small electronics), but it's been a long time. I know my way around a multimeter, but don't fully comprehend the electrical systems of vehicles especially boats. But I am willing to learn, so please point me in the right direction.

This is my ChargePro
Image

Thanks,
Author:  taz42169 [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 238 Vista Charging
One thing you can do is start her on the good battery and switch over to one that needs a charge. The boat will be running off of the alternator and should charge up the wek battery. I'd check your connections to make sure you don't have corrosion.

While hooked up to shore power,your tender should be charging all the batteries in the bank. How old is the weak battery? Is the reservoir full? Just a few things to check first.

Good luck.
Author:  jsimon [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 238 Vista Charging
Here is a good test

with shore power NOT connected or with it connected and the battery charger breaker turned to the OFF position, check you batteries with a volt meter and note the readings

Then plug in your power or turn on the charger breaker, you will see a noticable rise in voltage (on a good battery it will got from say 12.1 to 13, or something along those lines. Your weak one may go from 10.8, to 13 say. Not real numbers but you get the idea

If there is no change similar to the above, then something is wrong. Bad battery, blown fuse in the charger, or no input voltage to the charger.

This is all generalalities but you get the point...
Author:  kd4pbs [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 238 Vista Charging
DO NOT switch the battery selector while the engine is running. This can damage electrical / electronic components.
The engine's alternator should charge both batteries while running regardless of battery selector position. Verify this with a voltmeter while the engine is stopped, then running. If one is not getting charged, suspect a faulty battery isolator.
Author:  LVChris [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 238 Vista Charging
kd4pbs wrote:
DO NOT switch the battery selector while the engine is running. This can damage electrical / electronic components.
The engine's alternator should charge both batteries while running regardless of battery selector position. Verify this with a voltmeter while the engine is stopped, then running. If one is not getting charged, suspect a faulty battery isolator.


Yeah, I had a feeling that that was incorrect. I was always told not to switch it with engine running. Thanks everyone for the suggestions, kd4pbs - sorry I have never hear of a battery isolator? Can you explain?
Author:  LouC [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 238 Vista Charging
It really depends on the type of switch, some can be switched from 1 to both to 2 with the engine running (NOT OFF) and some cannot. If its a make before break style switch you can switch with the engine running (BUT NOT TO OFF). You should find out the model of the switch and ask the manufacturer.
If a battery is that low that you just get a click it will take hours to recharge. You can't really do that with the engine running since it will take too long. I am not familiar with shore power and permanently installed chargers in boats having a small boat that just has a simple 2 batt system. But I know it can take 6-8 hrs easily to bring back a battery that was that low in charge on a regular charger.
When my boat is not being used I try to re-charge the batts every month or so.
Author:  LVChris [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 238 Vista Charging
Thanks Lou, what do you use to recharge? I am imagining a cord stretched out to my boat in the street with a battery charger plugged in and my engine hatch and my L seat opened for anyone to come by and make trouble...

Any recommendations on where I get a charger?
Author:  LouC [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 238 Vista Charging
I'm just using a simple automotive Schumacher charger that I got when I bought the boat years ago. Its a smart charger that charges in 3 phases so as not to overheat the battery. You could remove the batt you want to charge and put it in a safe place so as to not have to worry about that problem.
If its really that dead its gonna take hours anyway so I'd pull the worst one out first stick it in your garage and put it on the charger. I've brought back several batteries that were close to dead over the years and kept them for spares for our vehicles. When batts go dead its usually not at a convenient time.....
Author:  taz42169 [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 238 Vista Charging
On most boats with a 1/2/BOTH/OFF switch the house bank can be used for everything, and it makes it a lot easier. If you have a small bank then you may want to wait to fire up your instruments to avoid drop out during starting but the bank should easily start your small aux engine.

Once you have more than one battery in parallel or series/parallel as a "bank" you combine your cranking amps so most often your house bank will do a far better job at starting the motor than the "start" battery will.

I don't treat my start battery as a "starting battery" I consider it my reserve bank...

With MOST switches it is fine to move between 1, 2 & BOTH with the engine running. What you don't want to do is pass through the OFF position.
Author:  LVChris [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 238 Vista Charging
Thanks for all the info, but now I am even more confused.

I always thought that the reason for the 1/2/both switch was to keep from draining all the batteries while "on the hook" so even days use 2 and odd days use 1, and if you NEED the extra cranking power (i.e. both batteries partially drained) then both. is that not correct?

I plan on picking up an inexpensive charger from Harbor ($24.99 http://www.harborfreight.com/26-amp-612-volt-battery-charger-60322-9302.html and just taking whichever battery is low out and charging it overnight, does that sound right? The batteries are all from 2012, so I can't imagine that one is bad. But now I wonder what caused one to drain?

I will pick her up tomorrow and see.
Author:  rpengr [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 238 Vista Charging
LVChris wrote:
The batteries are all from 2012, so I can't imagine that one is bad. But now I wonder what caused one to drain?

It's not unheard of for a battery to be defective in a short time. If you have any doubt about it, take it by a big name auto parts store for a free load test (since you will have it out of the boat anyway).
Author:  LouC [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 238 Vista Charging
One thing I do is always buy batteries with removable caps like in the old days. That way I can use a battery hydrometer after charging them to see if there is a weak cell. Short of load testing them, that is a good way to tell if the battery is on its way out, even if it comes back up to charge. Another way to tell is if it looses charge quickly over time when not being used. There is a chance that something on the boat is draining the battery. One way to tell is to disconnect the neg cable from the suspect battery and hook up an ammeter in series between the batt cable and the engine ground. See if there is a draw, check it both with the batt switch on and off. If you find a draw, you can narrow it down by either flipping one breaker off/remove one fuse at a time till you find the one that eliminated the draw. That is the circuit that is drawing down the battery.
Author:  Paul I. [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 238 Vista Charging
LouC wrote:
It really depends on the type of switch, some can be switched from 1 to both to 2 with the engine running (NOT OFF) and some cannot. If its a make before break style switch you can switch with the engine running (BUT NOT TO OFF). You should find out the model of the switch and ask the manufacturer.
If a battery is that low that you just get a click it will take hours to recharge. You can't really do that with the engine running since it will take too long. I am not familiar with shore power and permanently installed chargers in boats having a small boat that just has a simple 2 batt system. But I know it can take 6-8 hrs easily to bring back a battery that was that low in charge on a regular charger.
When my boat is not being used I try to re-charge the batts every month or so.


I agree with Lou!!

On: "The engine's alternator should charge both batteries while running regardless of battery selector position." This is only true if you have a combiner or a isolator OR the switch set to "Both" Just so its understood.

I installed a 2nd charger on my boat, a ProMariner. http://promariner.com/products/dry-moun ... cp-series/

What I really like about it, is the 2 displays on it. It shows Voltage & Amp output. This will give you a some insight on the battery's condition.
Author:  kd4pbs [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 238 Vista Charging
The battery isolator is a device that will allow charging current to flow from the alternator to both batteries, but not from either battery to the other. The old isolators used a few decades ago would have issues with having ~.6V to .7V drop from the alternator and not compensate for it, thus not allowing the battery to come to full charge. On our modern systems, this problem is eliminated by making the alternator regulator sense voltage come from the battery side of the isolator. That means if you read the voltage at the output terminal of the alternator, one would see ~14.5V to 15.1V, allowing for the voltage drop of the isolation diodes to reach the proper regulated voltage. Regardless, the 55 amp or so alternators we have will charge the battery much more quickly than the on-board charger.
One thing I had to get used to on the Vista is the fact that they have a dedicated "Ship's Systems" battery and "Engine" battery. When not in parallel, all 12V items on the craft are powered by the "Ship's Systems" battery except for the engine start and ignition which are powered by the "Engine" battery. As such, one would think it be a waste to have anything other than an inexpensive automotive style non-deep cycle battery in the "Engine" position.
The Chap simply has two batteries that can be used either one at a time or in parallel for all 12V loads on the boat. For it, I utilized two group 31 deep cycle batteries. I would typically alternate use of each battery. Smartly, the bilge pumps are wired through a low-current isolator so that if one battery dies, the other will supply power to the pumps. After an overnight stay on the hook with lights, refrigerator, and stereo on, whichever battery I was using would be depleted, and I'd simply switch to the other one, fire up the boat, and cruise around a few hours to recharge the flat one. It seems to make more sense than the method Four Winns used.
The manual for my '02 Vista as well as my '96 Chaparral specifically state to not move the battery switch while the engine is running. As such, I'm pretty sure the switch that FW uses is not a make-before-break type of switch, and the Chap uses a standard Guest 1/2/BOTH/OFF switch. Perhaps in '96 they did it differently? Consult the manual and see. Does any manufacturer even build a make-before-break battery switch?
Author:  EvilZ [ Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 238 Vista Charging
I use this charger outside the boat:
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-VEC1089ABD-Battery-Continuous/dp/B000UZ62FM/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_6

And installed this on in my boat:
http://www.amazon.com/ProMariner-ProSport-Waterproof-Battery-Charger/dp/B004TU72QM
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