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Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
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Author:  LVChris [ Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
So I have two issues right now that are keeping me from taking my family out on my boat and can't get anyone to look at it this week. Hoping of some help here to determine what is actually going on (maybe it's nothing?)

Background- Two weeks ago I took 7 other adults out on my 1996 238 Vista DLX 5.8 EFI. This was the first time I had that many people on her after going from SS prop to aluminum (I had tested the new prop with just 2 people and it was near the same as the SS) I could not get the boat to plane even with the trim tabs down. Had to get some people to move into cabin, once she was on plane, no problem.

We ran up the lake about 8 miles turned around to head back and about 45 minutes of running constant 3500rpm 27 mph she just slowed way down, the tach I believe was still at 3500 rpm, hard to say because I pulled the throttle back immediately. The oil pressure was fine and the temp was fine. Everyone on the boat said they could smell gas....but I am sure it was exhaust, just very strong and very potent gas odor in it. I slowly drove her to the nearest beach and began to look over the engine. I did not notice a lot of water in the bilge although there was some. I did notice this.

Image

Video link --> https://flic.kr/p/umroHT sorry about the sniffling audio

After close examination I found the leak was from higher above the y pipe and I took a socket wrench and tightened the hose clamps as tight as I could. Hoping that there was not some torque setting or something that I was missing. At the time I was thinking "ok this would be an exhaust leak and perhaps it caused my problem?

Several hours later we left the beach and headed back to the dock and with the exception of having to move people to the cabin again to get on plane, she ran fine for the short 10 minute run. When I pulled her out we got in a hurry and I didn't get a chance to check that leak again, but when I pulled the plug...more water came out than I thought should, although people were wet on the boat and my bilge never kicked on, so maybe that was paranoia.

In any case I am going to drop her in the water myself tomorrow and try to replicate the power loss by just running her around for 45 minutes and at the same time I will look for this leak again.

Anything I should ALSO check? anything I should be worried about with putting my family on the boat later that day? I have unlimited towing insurance and quite a few mates on the water so the worry isn't getting stuck, the worry is doing damage and costing a LOT more money or even worse someone getting hurt because of some mechanical failure.

I know it's a shot in the dark but any feedback could help as I am blind to what is going on here.

TIA,
Author:  deafwish [ Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
Is the issue the small amount of oil pictured in the bilge, or it coming off plane because of a large load? :?
Author:  702Steve [ Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
Hey Chris are you having power loss as you give it gas? I had a similar problem i would look into/or replace your anti siphon valve. On mine the spring gummed up.
Author:  LVChris [ Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
Wanted to update here. My mechanic and I went out on Saturday morning. Ran it for a while then stopped and checked bilge...there was some water. He noticed my water heater dripping, tightened that hose. He then tightened all of the exhaust pipes just for good measure. He also found <yikes> power steering fluid, but can't tell where its coming from...but somewhere near or from the ram. Not what I wanted to hear, I'm afraid that's going to be pricey.

So started her back up and sped around a while, never got any power loss. So I started explaining and recreating exactly how it happened last time and lo and behold it lost power again...speedometer dropped tach stayed the same.

At the risk of sounding foolish I will tell you what was going on, go easy on me.

To reproduce the problem I had the boat running at 3500 rpm, 27 mph. I then adjusted the trim to try to get a few more mph out of her, a couple of minutes later she starts slowing down. I look at the mechanic and he's like "yeah, you just fell off plane." It was very subtle and I couldn't feel/see it. I swore to him this has never happened before and he reminds me that I changed props about a month ago, went from SS to aluminum same size/pitch and that I will not get the same performance. To prove it we slam the throttle and it gets right back on plane and has no problem. At WOT I adjust the trim and have no performance loss. Of course I can only get to 4200 rpm and about 34 mph (with the SS I was getting 4500 rpm and 42 mph at WOT)

So with the exception of the power steering leak all is well again, although I might start looking for another prop.

When I pulled the plug a little water came out and some power steering fluid, never saw this before. Why is it every time I fix something on my boat something else breaks? :?
Author:  alex8q4 [ Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
That's because we don't drive new boats!

I had a leak in the ram on my last boat and it took forever for me to find it. Turned out that as the piston went in and out some oil, and I would not even say a full drop, would make its way past the packing. I only knew to keep looking because I had air in my steering system that I could not get rid of. If you have air in your system you would likely already know it.

My old boat had a Merc and the ram was very expensive. I found a used one for much much less and it worked perfect.

If you are sure it's power steering fluid don't forget to check the power steering cooler for leaks also.
Author:  signalstan [ Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
when I first got my boat last fall it had a power steering leak I found it at the power steering cooler heat ex changer where the main cooling water comes in from the drive the fluid hose clamp was loose
Author:  powermaker [ Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
Just curious but why did you switch to an aluminum prop ? Cause I'm thinking of switching to a stainless
Author:  LouC [ Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
Check the hydraulic lines where they bolt to the actuator (back behind the engine, to the left of the starboard exhaust piping). On my boat the nuts that hold the hydraulic lines on we're slightly loose. Use a flare wrench (the ones made for brake line fittings).
Author:  LouC [ Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
Also I have heard that changing from stainless to aluminum you may have to chsnge pitch because of the fact that alu props flex more.
Here I use the alu because a stainless prop can increase corrosion on boats left in the water (big chunk of stainless right next to your alu drive + salt water = galvanic corrision)...
Author:  Jsyphil [ Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
What a nightmare, Chris - good luck with it mate.
I'd check the Power Steering cooler first for leaks.

Hope all is ok and it isn't too serious.
Author:  LVChris [ Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
powermaker wrote:
Just curious but why did you switch to an aluminum prop ? Cause I'm thinking of switching to a stainless


I switched because our lake is dropping at alarming rates and there are always new dangers. I did not want to risk an expensive outdrive repair.
Author:  LVChris [ Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
Thanks for all the advice. I hope it's not the ram and just a line somewhere. I never got a chance to look myself. I will take a look next time I'm on the boat and report back here.

Look at this;

http://www.crowleymarine.com/johnson-evinrude/parts/56703.cfm

I see there are a whole lot of places it could be coming from, thanks again Lou for showing me this site.
Author:  fi.na.tine [ Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
My unit leaks PS as well. If it is and I am assuming VP - mine leaks from the ram on the starboard side. From observations, asking and learning - I have been told that the seals over time weaken and let fluid pass (a hydraulic repair shop told me it's because these units are made to be operated daily and not sit for months at a time.) There is a repair kit on Ebay. It's what I plan on doing next winter.
Author:  LVChris [ Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
fi.na.tine wrote:
My unit leaks PS as well. If it is and I am assuming VP - mine leaks from the ram on the starboard side. From observations, asking and learning - I have been told that the seals over time weaken and let fluid pass (a hydraulic repair shop told me it's because these units are made to be operated daily and not sit for months at a time.) There is a repair kit on Ebay. It's what I plan on doing next winter.



That sounds great, but it's my understanding that to get to the Ram on my boat...the engine has to come out first....
Author:  Graham R [ Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Going to try to diganose a couple of problems tomorrow.
LVChris wrote:
fi.na.tine wrote:
My unit leaks PS as well. If it is and I am assuming VP - mine leaks from the ram on the starboard side. From observations, asking and learning - I have been told that the seals over time weaken and let fluid pass (a hydraulic repair shop told me it's because these units are made to be operated daily and not sit for months at a time.) There is a repair kit on Ebay. It's what I plan on doing next winter.



That sounds great, but it's my understanding that to get to the Ram on my boat...the engine has to come out first....


The inner SX or OMC JV transom must be the same, whether it's a Ford or GM engine fitted. Unless the Ford engine has some strange rear overhang, the ram/ cylinder should be as easy to remove as the GM engine one. I never did it, but it looked to have good easy access and simple gudgeon pins holding it in place.
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