www.iFourWinns.com

Hi all
spent the day investigating and familiarising with the various boat parts, and discovered several things I could use some help with
Firstly, the ONLY part of this immaculate boat which has some grime was under an inspection hatch outside the head door..
I guess its a bilge pump of some kind, but how does it operate, and why would it have some water in there? - note it rained VERY heavily for 2 days last week and the boat was in the open before I got it..


secondly, under the middle rear berth , 2 more hatches, one which looks like the fuel tank vent ,

and another which is like a deep cylindrical well cut into the fuel tank...whay is this there, and why do we need to be able to see it?This one has water in it again, and smelt of fuel to me , but it was definitely water in the recess

Hope that makes some sense..I may have a few more later!

thanks !

_________________
Bill P
Marbella, Spain
Vista 248 Year 2000
25th Anniversary edition
Volvo Penta Engine and Outdrive

Bill,

It'd help if you indicate the model of boat and year of build.

The first item looks to be the shower sump. A box that collects the water from the shower, with a bilge pump in it that, depending on local requirements, pumps the waste water overboard or to a holding tank. The box and pump can get pretty gungy with soap residues etc. Some models like my 2009 278 Vista have a bilge pump under the inspection cover as well.

Second, fuel tank vent or fuel outlet.

Third, the "hole". The tanks are rotomoulded, they put in such features to make the tank more dimensionally stable. It acts like a cylindrical rib between the upper and lower faces of the tank

Thanks Graham ..oopps

only just got the boat keys so haven't filled in my profile yet !

Its a Vista 248 year 2000 (25th anniversary edition with lots of the optional accessories)

All your explanations make sense... will give the grungy shower sump a good clean out I think !
Would the "hole" have rain water in it theoretically? and why does it need to have visible access? seems odd....

appreciate your help !

_________________
Bill P
Marbella, Spain
Vista 248 Year 2000
25th Anniversary edition
Volvo Penta Engine and Outdrive

Bill, I agree with Graham. The first picture is most likely the shower sump, although mine in my 2002 268 is mounted under the floor in a storage compartment behind the head and just ahead of the rear cabin. It looks the same though. Water from the head/shower goes from the floor drain into the shower sump pump and is either pumped overboard or into a gray or black water holding tank. Yours is much easier to access than mine. The shower sump is a box with a 750gph Attwood bilge pump and a separate Attwood float switch. If it does not work, water will back up and possibly flow out of the box into the bilge. The pump is pretty dependable, but the float switch is somewhat prone to not lasting. It is also possible that it might get enough dried soap scum on it to keep it from working. I've replaced my float switch twice since 2011. Its relatively easy once you can get at it. In your case you can easily remove the 6 screws from the top cover of the sump box to access the pump and switch inside. The switch is installed with 2 screws and 2 wires. Polarity is not an issue. If you have a fuse panel beside your right ankle at the helm, there should be a fuse for the "Shower Sump". It might not hurt to pour some water down the drain to see if it works. I have heard that sometimes pouring hot water down the drain may free up a soap encrusted float switch. If not, you might need to get the phillips screwdriver and wire splice crimpers out. If you decide to change it all, most of the newer ones use an all-in-one pump/float switch. Just verify the box size.

I'm not sure if you have one bilge pump or 2. My 268 has one in the rear bilge just below the front end of the engine, and one for the forward bilge where your shower sump is located. They are separated by a bulkhead, one aft bilge and one forward bilge. One bilge pump will not pump the other's compartment I'd recommend checking that out to make sure it/they work.

I believe the second picture is the fuel tank vent line. The fuel tank is mounted in the center of the boat under the aft cabin floor. The black water (toilet) holding tank is most likely under the aft cabin floor to the starboard side of the fuel tank. I'm not sure about the third picture. If it is the fuel tank it might be for mounting a pump for a different boat/motor application. If this is the black water holding tank then this might be where an optional macerator pump might be installed. The water could be from rain water finding its way to an odd location, or it could be condensation. It is not real common, but its not unheard of to have a bit of a fuel smell near the fuel tank, especially after being inactive and closed up for a while. You might try to open things up and ventilate it, and look for leaks, as always. Hope this helps.

_________________
Surface Interval: A scuba diving term for that time between dives to relax and prepare for life's next great adventure.

Current boat: '02 FW 268 Vista
Previous boat: '95 FW 190 Horizon

The forward bilge pump on mine is essential. (Rain) water does get in there, I have never been able to completely prevent it happening. It doesn't drain to the rear bilge.Without the forward bilge pump in a working state, stating the obvious, that part of the bilge fills up. It won't sink the boat, but in their wisdom FW put a multi pin "almost but not quite waterproof " wiring harness connector there. The corrosion and current draw and caused all sorts of weird electrical issues.

If you get any water in that part of the bilge that the rear bilge pump does not remove, I recommend you fit a pump in there!

Great info as always !
So to be clear ..the shower water should flow into that box and be pumped out again and not actually lie at all in the bilge
Presumably as there is a bit of lying water , the float switch may well need looking at ..first thing I will try tomorrow !

Re Bilge Pumps.. the manual suggests there is a forward bilge pump, however there is neither a switch or fuse for it, so I guess it never got fitted for whatever reason .
WHERE would you fit the forward bilge pump if you wanted to ...I assume where the shower sump box lies now IS the forward bilge (sorry if Im being slow ! LOL )

3rd pic Im pretty sure now is the fuel tank ..the black water tank is indeed under the aft cabin floor to the starboard next to it , accessed by a lifting cover under the back mattress...
Still have no idea why they go to the trouble of allowing easy access to the plastic cylindrical cutout in the fuel tank , and I do have standing water in that hollow..I guess any fuel vapours would also sit in that as they are heavier than air...

All this is SO valuable , thanks...the manual is VERY scant on certain info , and I really like to understand whats going on !
I apologise in advance for posting so many threads, but I thought if I kept them separate, it would really help other people searching in future !
Next thread in just a moment LOL

thanks again

_________________
Bill P
Marbella, Spain
Vista 248 Year 2000
25th Anniversary edition
Volvo Penta Engine and Outdrive

It's your shower sump! It doesn't pump out rain water, only what enters the box. The other pictures are of your black water holding tank, and most likely the other is for fresh water feed to the head. On your 248, do you have 2 Fresh water caps and 1 waste? I did on my 248.

_________________
-Tony
2016 Robalo R200 w/Yahama 200!

Previous boats:
2003 Four Winns 248 Vista - sold
1994 Sunbird Corsair 200 - sold
1980 Checkmate Predictor - sold

The water from the shower sump is pumped either into the black water tank (or gray water tank if installed) or pumped overboard. There may be local ordinances against discharge overboard. You have a 16 gallon fresh water tank and a 16 gallon black water tank on the 248. If you have a gray water tank you will have 2 waste water pumpout fittings on the top rear starboard corner gunnel of the boat, and the gray water tank would be under the port side aft cabin floor. It would be good to verify where any water from your sink drains and shower drain goes so you can plan on how much capacity you have and how long you can go between pumpouts. You should be able to hear the pump running occasionally as it pumps about a quart or so at a time. If you have overboard discharges you will see water coming out of fittings on the side of the hull near each sink.

Have a look at the bilge area just behind the shower sump. Is there an opening in the bulkhead/wall between the shower sump and the front side of the fuel tank to allow water to flow thru the bulkhead? If so, this means that bilge water will flow aft into the engine compartment and you might only have the one bilge pump in the engine compartment. According to the owner's manual, the bilge water may flow forward into the forward bilge area while the boat is at rest. The manual recommends trying the bilge pump when you are moving forward either accelerating or on plane with the bow up slightly. This may also mean that any rain water that came into the cockpit area and drained into the engine compartment flowed into the forward bilge area. In a way, this is good news because it means you are less likely to have a hull leak in the forward cabin area. Whether you have one bilge pump or two, a bilge pump will not completely drain the area of the water below the pump. You might get a hand pump or find some other way to remove the extra water so it doesn't get stagnant in the bilge. Some people like to have onboard a spare bilge pump rigged up as a portable. Just add an extended 2 wire harness with aligator clips and 5 to 10 feet of hose to discharge overboard. You might also keep an eye on the storage compartment under the forward seat in the V berth. Some owners have had water leaking from the bow anchor locker into into this storage area.

I'd clean the water out of the recessed area of the tank and watch it.

_________________
Surface Interval: A scuba diving term for that time between dives to relax and prepare for life's next great adventure.

Current boat: '02 FW 268 Vista
Previous boat: '95 FW 190 Horizon

taz42169 that doesn't make sense to me, ...a waste tank is to the fuel tank's starboard and marked ( and smells! ) as such...
I only have one fresh water cap and one waste cap ....
I am talking here about a fuel tank under the Middle mid cushion... under the starboard mid cushion is the waste tank....

here is Spain we have NO pump outs in the marinas! they simply don't do them !
My engineer had to fit a macerator and pump to the waste tank, so we didn't end up with a disaster !
I can now send the contents of the waste tank overboard with a switch.....but is it the black or grey ! argghhhhhhhhh

I am somewhat confused if I have a black AND a grey tank.... will investigate given Surface intervals clues tomorrow !

_________________
Bill P
Marbella, Spain
Vista 248 Year 2000
25th Anniversary edition
Volvo Penta Engine and Outdrive

Bill, as you are describing, you do not have a gray water tank. The macerator would have been installed on the black water tank which holds material from the toilet, and may or may not also get anything from the sinks or shower sump.

_________________
Surface Interval: A scuba diving term for that time between dives to relax and prepare for life's next great adventure.

Current boat: '02 FW 268 Vista
Previous boat: '95 FW 190 Horizon

Will do some running of water today and see where it all ends up !

thanks !

_________________
Bill P
Marbella, Spain
Vista 248 Year 2000
25th Anniversary edition
Volvo Penta Engine and Outdrive

So after some investigation, the Attwood 750 pump, switch and box are shot I think(my first picture in first post) ...pump doesn't even work with switch bypassed.
So was going to replace the lot with this
http://www.seaflo.us/product/seaflo-sho ... #undefined
an inexpensive fix, which appears to have the float switch built in and will fit the same size gap
That should be ok - right?

question...
I currently have standing water now in that bilge..midships to the left of the head door ..its going nowhere , just sitting there.
from the shower (which hasn't really been used except to clean) buts its clear to see any water draining from shower is flowing out of the sump box, into the actual sump...
should this be draining sternward into the main bilge (as I have only one bilge pump)
Surface interval mentioned this ought to be the case earlier, and also that my bilge water may run into that area when the boat is level...seems odd as its filling up rapidly with nowhere to go !
I tried seeing if there was some kind of blockage , but can't really determine it from the bilge.
Am I correct in assuming that should drain, and if so , where is it likely to be blocked that I can get at ?

thanks in advance!

_________________
Bill P
Marbella, Spain
Vista 248 Year 2000
25th Anniversary edition
Volvo Penta Engine and Outdrive

Bill, that shower sump pump should work fine. Make sure you have the plumbing connections snug enough so there are no leaks, and good electrical power and connections. As I understand your description, water from the floor drain in the head/shower flows into the current shower sump and then leaks out into the bilge. The overboard discharge port for the shower sump is the highest part of the system. Water would back up and not flow down the drain if the sump box is completely sealed. These shower sump boxes should be water tight on the bottom and sides, but the lid may not be watertight. If the current pump doesn't work you may very likely get water overflowing out between the box and lid and into the bilge.

I think I recall something from the manual for your boat that indicated that some bilge water may flow forward because the keel is actually lower in the forward cabin than it is in the engine compartment under some conditions. I think your 248 bilge should be very similar to my 268, with one exception. Since you are not finding a forward bilge pump there should be a hole in the bottom center of the wall between the fuel tank and the shower sump. This hole should allow water to flow from the forward bilge area back toward the bilge pump in the engine compartment, .....or flow forward if the boat's bow is lower. In my 268 this wall is sealed and is a spearation between forward and aft bilges. I do have a forward bilge pump on that pad where your shower sump is located. My shower sump is located under the floor of a storage compartment behind the head. My fuel tank area is open to the engine compartment. Remember that bilge pumps will generally not remove all the water from the bilge. They generally will not remove water any lower than about an inch above the bottom of the pump. Depending on the depth of water in the forward bilge area, adding a forward bilge pump may or may not be worth considering. You might look at options like a portable hand pump and bucket or other means to remove water that the bilge pump won't pump out.
Hope this helps.

_________________
Surface Interval: A scuba diving term for that time between dives to relax and prepare for life's next great adventure.

Current boat: '02 FW 268 Vista
Previous boat: '95 FW 190 Horizon