www.iFourWinns.com

This is a bit of a rant.

Somebody at Four Winns really needs to go look inside some sailboats and learn some lessons about space savings.

There are HUGE amounts of wasted space in our 348. For example:

• Behind the sofa in the main cabin
• All around the galley in general
• Within the side and rear gunwales
• Under the swim platform

There's never enough room on a boat, no matter how large a vessel. Stuff just seems to expand to exceed whatever space is available. And yes, you generally should try to avoid adding more stuff and it's weight to a boat, especially at today's gas prices.

I've got few pet peeves about not being able to stow a couple of things:

• the cockpit table and it's cushion
• the foredeck cushions
• those LONG side curtains from the bimini.

A couple of niggling design flaws:

• the starboard closet in the forward berth, that vertical space is useless as it's not tall enough to hang anything but too tall to stack things neatly.
• the aft closet next to the head has a hanger rod that's not far enough back to actually allow hanging clothes without them sticking out of the closet.
• Route out the center hole in the frame under the sofa so the center filler cushion would actually FIT in there, that's just a stupid design flaw.

It would help if they added some sort of access from behind the sofa. There's a few things like pots, pans and serving trays that'd be really handy to stow back in there.

How about making it possible to hinge up the starboard cockpit seatback to stow the cockpit table down into the starboard gunwale? It's just plain unsafe to have something that large and heavy stowed in the cabin. Yes, I could lay it on the forward berth, but if it shifts going over waves/wakes it'd be like smacking a hammer on those nearby cabinets. Using the shorter legs turning it into a 'sun pad' doesn't make that as secure a seating area as I'd like for rough condtions. It's better get people sitting in the seats with their feet planted on the floor rather than spread across a cushion. There's a stow space for the cabin table, why not the cockpit table?

Speaking of which, move the mounting hole for the cabin table toward the center an inch, we're not getting any thinner and could use the room when seated at the table!

That integrated swim platform is great, but why put such shallow storage lockers on it? Make 'em deeper at least! I realize it'd be risk to make them hatches into the engine compartment (wake catching up, swamping a hatch left open...) but it'd sure be nice to have a place to stow messy stuff like a 3hp dinghy outboard, fishing gear and the like.

And how about actually making a transom rail that a grill could be mounted on? The recessed one might be good for clipping down the canvas covers but it's useless for mounting anything.

I could go on, but basically they ought to go spend a few hours inside a couple of sailboats and learn how remarkably well those interiors make use of space. And this isn't just a Four Winns issue, I've seen similar wasting of space in plenty of other brands of powerboats.

We love the boat otherwise, and it's only when you've spent some time in a boat that you start to learn what could use improvement. So don't get the impression we're at all unhappy with it, we LOVE being out in it!

C'mon folks, get it together!

Oh, and put some sort filler behind the edges of the shelves in the lockers just above the sofa. There's a 3/4" gap that lets stuff fall down into that wasted space behind the sofa. Retrieving said objects requires removing a bajillion screws for the sofa back. Yes, I know this from experience.. twice now... grrr.....

Not just on the Vista;

ESP on my '04 Sundowner is great, but why didn't they fit a hatch so the outdrive/ props can be checked/ cleaned from above, without having to get into the ( 52 -62 max deg.F) water?

and

Why didn't they use stainless steel bolts to hold it on to the transom?

and

Why did they design the engine cover so rainwater goes into the engine compartment and all over the wiring loom?

Overall very happy with it, but stupid litle things that could have been done much better at very little extra cost.

Graham

At least the 348 has a place to store the cabin table. No such luck for me.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

Please send your gripes to Four Winns. We looked at the 288 Vista at the Miami Boat Show (prototype) and actually scratched it from our list of boats to buy. Why, dumb designs. I pointed some of the things out to the Four Winns people and they got in touch with me for more ideas. One thing, location of the shore power plug was changed. They also incorporated a handle or two we suggested. I complained about the actuators they used for the switches...way too bright for night time boating; they were changed on the 05 models. Because of a couple of changes, we put it back on the list and the rest is history.

I'd like them to get those little things fixed...never know, a 348 might be in my future

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Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

CM,

Doesn't the table store in the bathroom? I figrued it did since it does on our 258. I bet that is a pain to have lying around.

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1999 258 Vista
Floating on Easy Street
in Jonestown, TX

John,

I did give feedback to Four Winns on the design/ build issues I mentioned, plus a few others. ( like limber holes too high in the stringers, not allowing proper drainage and drain holes in anchor locker well above the lower most point). I did get a response, some of which I don't really believe, plus was told information was being passed on to engineering, manufacturing and QA. Maybe long term things might happen to newer models.

As to the mild steel ESP bolts, the response was " The platform mounts should not have rusted but may be a inferior metal. There have been a few that will do this in the salt water applications. a 316l should resolve this." .......No surprises there, I'd already changed the bolts to 316L!

Graham

if you have an older 268 without air conditioning and haven't yet done so, the first step into the cabin can easily be tranformed into a hinged step with a trash bucket inside the step. Great space saving feature!

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2000 Vista 268