www.iFourWinns.com

Ok, I revise my requirement list for servicing boats. Not only do you have to be a circus contortionist to get into the tight places, you also need to be one with looooooooong arms.

Cripes, it's a PITA getting to the port-side plug on the 5E genset! First you have to remove a half-dozen 5/6" screws that attach the sound shield. All of which (save one) are nearly impossible to reach. Once again my faithful DeWalt cordless right-angle drill has come to the rescue, along with a 5/16" nutdriver bit for it. A regular 1/4" socket will not do as the vertical spacing is a bit too tight to let you back the screws all the way out. A ratcheting box-end would probably work but you're gonna get arm cramps trying to back 2" of thread out with one. Oh, and be prepared for the supreme hassle of extracting dropped tools... and 2 D-cell batteries when the flashlight broke...

The Kohler manual states this is the "non service side" of the genset. No f'cking shit... really? I couldn't have guessed.

You can remove the soundshield from within the engine compartment. Well, you can disassemble it "enough" to let you get the job done. You only need to get the top off so you can reach the port-side plug. But to do this you need to remove the top screws AND the two on the aft end. Those screws hold the aft-facing panel of the sound shield onto the top. This L-shaped assembly is too large to move out of the way due to the engine exhaust hoses. So get the pieces apart and set them aside.

The starboard side, or "serviceable side", allows relatively easy replacement of the plug, the oil filter and the oil. Get a vacuum fluid extractor. You attach a hose to the drain nipple on the genset, turn a valve and pump the extractor. This works nicely. Draining into a pan is pretty much impossible as the frame of the genset leaves no real room for getting a pan (of any kind) in there. I have a Moeller 8 liter fluid extractor and it did a fine job (on both this and the two 6.0L main engines).

The port side, on the other hand, is a royal pain in the ass. Know how you reach that back side plug? Remove the battery box up on the gunwale above. I kid you not.

You can "almost" reach the port plug from down in the engine compartment. But you'll think twice about the effort once you burn your arm on the exhaust manifold that seems to stay hot for damn near forever (well, 2 hours anyway). So, remove the screws around the face of the gunwale battery panel and the whole box will come right out. There's "just enough" slack in the HUGE red battery cables to do this. Just tilt the whole thing down out into the cockpit. Put a rag between it and the face of the gunwale to keep from scratching it. Then also put one across the back of the box. It's like a hundred degrees here today, you don't want to have your sweat electrocute you across those terminals.

Ok, so now you have a hole in the gunwale into which you cram your noggin and right arm. Be prepared to do this a couple of times as you'll need to get a flashlight, the 5/8" sparkplug socket and wrench and the plug down into this space. Feel around for the plug wire; it's in the same position as the one on the starboard side. Pop the terminal off the plug (pull evenly on the boot itself, not the wire of course). Then contort your arm and use the socket wrench to remove the plug. Replacement is the reverse, making sure not to cross-thread the plug. Once again, keep a GOOD GRIP on the tools so you don't spend another half-hour getting the damn things back up out of the bowels of the outside bilge area...

Then put the cover back on and you're good to go. (he says naively). Just remember NOT TO DROP TOOLS.

When I pulled the plugs they were pretty dirty. Not damaged, just filthy enough to warrant replacement. The more frugal of you out there might be OK with cleaning them up. With this much hassle I'm OK shelling out the $10/pair for new ones.

If you get a quote from your dealer to do this job do not be surprised if it's hideously expensive. The labor to get into these spaces is certainly going to be most of the cost. The parts were under $60, including the oil. I'd venture a dealer quoting at least 3 hours to do this. I know it's taken me at least that long once you subtract the tool retrieval time.

I'm just glad it dawned on me to go in behind the battery switch. Otherwise I'm SURE much more tool retrieval would have been involved...

God help you if the genset needs to be removed. I can see no easy way to get it out of there without also pulling the port side engine. There MIGHT be enough clearance to get it out if you pulled the exhaust hoses off. Even then you'd still need to use a forklift and remove the whole engine compartment lid. So while doing a tune up is suitable for DIY, replacement is quite likely not.

With luck I'll post some pictures tonight. I keep forgetting to bring a USB cable for the phone, or a card reader for the camera.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Sounds like a huge royal PITA Bill. Now, make sure not to drop the camera or its batteries back there!

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Walter

2003 248 Vista - VP 5.0 GXi
2009 Toyota Tundra SR5 5.7L 4x4

... sounds like replacing plugs on my (now gone) '77 small-block Monza Mirage .......

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Gordon Arnold
New Hampshire

2003 268 Vista ..................................................................Prior: 97 245 Sundowner

Monza, now THERE was one of GM's darker days... My Dad had a notchback and it was a POS.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

I only took two pictures of the process.

http://www.ideaspace.net/boat/images/genset

One is the battery panel pulled out of the gunwale, with a towel over it. The other was taken looking down into that hole, at the port side outer edge of the genset. I had the camera wedged up against the hull. The wires in the top right are the AC lines leading back to the shore power outlets. The blue is the cold water hose that supplies the cockpit sink. The thick white section is the port side sound shield cover on the genset. It's pulled away from the genset itself, leaning up against the port hull. There really isn't a good way to take that picture. But what it's showing is that the plug is underneath that big black coolant hose. This makes it impossible to see from above. But since it's in the same place as the one on the other side it's not hard to 'feel' for it.

The rest of the job was relatively straightforward and the illustrations in the Kohler manual describe it pretty well.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

I CAN RELATE. WE HAD OUR STARTER CHANGED OUT THIS SUMMER ON A 2005 348 THANKFULLY IT WAS A WARRANTY JOB CAUSE IT TOOK 2 GUYS ALL DAY.
TURNED OUT TO BE A BAD GROUND

Two days? For the starter? That's insane. It's "right there" on the engine. But if they didn't catch the ground problem first, and replaced the starter, THEN went on the bug-hunt, well that would explain how they squandered that much time.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

I can sympathize with you. On my 378 Vista, the drill for removing the sound shield is the same, but at least the rear plug is accesable with a box wrench (forget a plug wrench). Changing the impeller is another story. The side of the generator with the impeller faces the starboard bulkhead . The only way to get to that side of the genny is to work over the top of the transmission. Since the space doesn't really allow anyone over the age of 12 to get close enough to the impeller access plate, you need to work with a large mirror resting against the bulkhead. Once that is in place and you can see the reverse image of the access plate, you find that there are cables and hoses right across the bottom screw. At that point, I gave up and paid the marina to do the job. End result, $35 in parts, $200 in labor to change an impeller.

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Jerry
2004 378 Vista "Escapade", T-Mercruiser 8.1 SHO
2003 Maxum 3300SE
1987 Wellcraft San Tropez
1991 Chaparral 2550SX
1987 Bayliner 2150
!967 Caravelle 1751

Aw Jerry, that sounds like a real hassle.

Sometimes you just have to wonder if the designers are even THINKING about long term serviceability of stuff. I shudder to think about the utter debacle it'd be to remove/replace the genset in the 348. It was 'bad enough' just getting the water heater out, and that had a removable deck panel designed to aid the process. But the genset, ugh, it looks like it'd require removing the engine hatch and at least a good portion of the port side engine exhaust. Hopefully we'll all be spared the learning experience!

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

I can't imagine changing a hot water heater. I contemplated changing the generator in my Wellcraft and was told they dismantle it in the boat to get it out. Putting the new one in was another story.

Looking at the engine room of the 378, if they had swapped the waste holding tank and the generator, everything would have worked out great. When I asked the factory about it, they said there were "engineering" issues. Go figure.

Say Bill, where do you do your boating? I'm on the Potomac in Woodbridge.

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Jerry
2004 378 Vista "Escapade", T-Mercruiser 8.1 SHO
2003 Maxum 3300SE
1987 Wellcraft San Tropez
1991 Chaparral 2550SX
1987 Bayliner 2150
!967 Caravelle 1751

We keep our 348 in Annapolis and generally use it in that area. We gone as far south as the mouth of the Potomac (up to St. Marys City), and north the Havre de Grace. But usually it's between Rock Hall to the north and Tilghman at the south. Haven't had as much time aboard this season since the baby arrived in June. He's a joy but certainly a challenge against free time.

I've not seen the engine compartment in a 378 so I can't comment on the "engineering issues" but I'm guessing it had a lot to do with routing hoses. The waste tank has inlet (from the head), vent and pump out connections and then there's the macerator and overboard wye fitting. The genset needs cooling water and room for it's exhaust. I wouldn't want to be the one trying to factor all the issues together.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Too bad about not getting out very much. The price of fuel has been our limiting factor. We still get out every weekend, but haven't made any trips to the bay this year. We used to do two ir three trips a season to the usual haunts (Solomons, Annapolis, St Michaels, etc.) Now that the price is below $4.00 again, we may try an end of season trip.

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Jerry
2004 378 Vista "Escapade", T-Mercruiser 8.1 SHO
2003 Maxum 3300SE
1987 Wellcraft San Tropez
1991 Chaparral 2550SX
1987 Bayliner 2150
!967 Caravelle 1751

Bill,

How many hours did you have on your genset when you replaced the plugs?

I change my genny oil/filter/impeller quite regularly but have never needed to do any other service so far (knocking on wood).

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2004 Sea Ray 420DB
Formerly: 2005 348 Vista

I don't use the genset all that often. I believe it had about 40 hours on it, but this was after three seasons. I figure it's good to replace the plugs every so often. Mine were slightly discolored. Same thing with the oil. I'll only be doing the oil at the end of each season and the plugs probably every other.

I have not replaced the impleller since it failed at the 10 hour mark (one early Sunday morning when I needed to make coffee using AC.... grrr...) I have a spare on board and it's not all that hard to replace on the 348's setup.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

40 hours?
We have more than that on our engines. Season 1. Genset hours. I think we are at right around 90 something. Guess I should change the oil. Better loose a few pounds first though!

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2008 Four Winns V358 (T 6.2L Merc Bravo III's with DTS and SeaCore)
2006 Sea Ray 340DA
2006 Sea Ray 320DA
2005 Maxum 3100 SE