www.iFourWinns.com

Hello all,

I'm in the market for an Express cruiser. I've looked at a tremendous number of boats (many only online) and have settled on the 348 as a very good candidate. At present I'm working with a dealer and have an offer of 175k for a Volvo Penta 320hp powered 2006 348 with flexi-teak swim platform, stainless windshield header, nav I package, bow sunpads, rear radio controls, Aft cabin DVD / TV Vacum Cleaner, Inner Spring mattress, and two tone gelcoat.

The dealer has had the boat for a while, they showed it at a boat show in early February and at this point I think woul dlike to get rid of it. My first question is how does this price compare to what others are seeing? My second question is do any 348 owners have any advice for anything I might want to have added to the boat if I do go forward?

Also, I'm currently on a Searay Sundancer 340, the boat is equipped with Merc power and hence Merc's smartcraft instrumentation. I really like smartcraft, but this obviously isn't available on VP power. Anyone know of anything like that for the VP motors?

Thanks
Ben

I can't comment on the 348 specifically but I can on the Vista series as I've owned a 248 and now a 288. The Vista is one of the best space users out there, especially on the smaller end. The size ou are looking at the difference between the variious manufactures in how they use space, IMHO, narrows.

As to overall quality, I see very little difference between the Four Winns brand and the Sea Ray brand. I think you will fond the fit and finnish very comparable.

As to the Sea Ray, you are correct, you will be limited to Mercruiser power as Brunswick owns both Merc and Sea Ray. It seems these days you are mostly limited to MarineMax as your dealer since they have all but sewn up the Sea Ray brand. I've heard good and bad things about MarineMax. I have a friend who has been in a fight with them over his Sea Ray 260. They serviced his boat and replaced the exhaust manifold gaskest and installed them incorrectly. He had major water intrusion and his engine is toast. Even though they admitted their mechanic screwed up they will not fix his boat, (except for him paying $5000 for a rebuilt). His attorney advised him to just repower as the cost of fighting them ( which looking at the documentation he has said they would win) would be about the same. I can tell you this has been going on since January and he will never buy or deal with MarineMax again. Sea Ray would not go up aagisnt MarineMax and help out, hence Sea Ray is permanently off his list as well.

Four Winns factory service has been excellent for me as has Volvo. Volvo replaced and engine for me because if a faulty oil line. They had the engine shipped and even called my dealer to arrange the service call and get it scheduled ASAP. As to Four Winns, the tank monitor system has been fixed a couple of times, called them and told them I was unhappy with the unit that was installed. They paid for the unit of my chaoice and paid the dealer to install it.

As to the SmartCraft system. It is propritary to Mercruiser. The new common standard is NMEA2000 which used a common bus to share info. Volvo has the EVC module that will provide info to the NMEA2000 network. I'll be getting some info on this for my boat hopefully this week. Belolw is a pic of the install I did in my boat. You can find more info at these sites LowranceNet, Power and Motor Yacht Article, Tank Filler with Display, Bennett Trim Tab Indicators



Add a tee and you are installed and the info is available to any of the displays.

_________________
Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

We have an '05 348 picked up new (left over) this Spring. We've got just over 50 hours on it. Ours has twin Crusader 6.0 inboards but I trialed one with the Volvos and liked it's performance. The sterndrives allow for slightly faster top-end but you're burnin' a lotta fuel at that point so the added 2-3mph won't come cheap. Getting one for $175k is a pretty good deal, ours was $199k and came with EVERY option (including fwd stateroom and canvases) except for the flexiteek cabin floor. We chose the 348 over a SR340DA because of the helm seating. The 348 has a port side lounger, the SR has three fixed forward facing bucket seats. These are not 'go fast' boats so it's rather pointless to put FIXED seating at the port side. The 348's lounger lets two people sit there and be able to particpate in conversations both front and back. Then there was the fit-and-finish, the cabinetry and materials in the FW were equal, if not superior, to the SR, while also having a much nicer look than the SR. The only complaints I've had are pretty trivial, there's no convenient place to mount a rectangular grill (so I'm having a grab rail made) and no place to stow the cockpit table. A few other little things but absolutelty nothing that'd convince me not to buy the boat.

So for that price it sounds like a pretty good deal.

I appreciate both of your replies. I'm definitely going to look into the NMEA2000 option. I really like the info I'm given by the smartcraft, so it's good to know there is an alternative out there.

Wkearney, Are you able to mount a round grill? I think I remember you saying that you prefer rectuangular to round. I'm not sure I have a preference and if I can mount one with minimal modifications, all the better.

I was bummed to see that there is not a place to stow the cockpit table. On the SR Dancer it mounts under the engine hatch in a wooden guides. Maybe I"ll see if something like that can be rigged.

Again, thanks for the feedback.
Ben

The 348 already has an NMEA 2000 network between the two Teleflex engine control computers. I'm in the process of getting info from Teleflex about pulling data out of that network for display on our E-80 chartplotter.

A round grill can be mounted with their angled bracket and extension arm. Having cooked four strip steaks this past Saturday night I can say area on a rectangular Magma Newport model is quite nice. The round ones would work ok if you're just cooking for two people. Anything more than a just a pair of burgers/steaks/whatever and it gets crowded on the kettle style. But hey, some folks love 'em.

I've got the grill mounted meanwhile using a rodholder mounted at an angle on the transom rail. Tilted over about 30 degrees and then I've got the newport setup with a rodholder peg mount. It's secure enough for cooking (mostly) but not for being underway or for scrubbing it clean as it wobbles a little bit. I look forward to having it on a transom rail of it's own. As I've mentioned in other threads there's also the top of the gunwales that some folks might consider using. There are choices, just not an immediate 'clamp it here' location.

The table could possibly be stowed in the engine compartment. Since it's actually part of the hull there's actually a fair bit of room in the swim platform area. I could rig up the sort of sliding bracket that SR uses and put it under there. I don't think a bracket could be put on the underside of the engine hatch as the clearance to the engines seems like it's rather close. That and I'd worry about the heat from the engines. At some point I'm going to put a thermometer down in there just to see how warm it actually gets. If anything I'd probably consider making a bag out of some sort of insulated material and put the table in there first. Sorta like a pizza delivery bag, but bigger of course. That'd also cushion it a bit.

I'm also considering that space in the platform as a place to stow a 2-3hp engine for a dinghy. Or perhaps some other kind of bracket as there's a LOT of room in the engine compartment (something not always the case on some other boats).

There is quite a bit of space to stow things but it'll take you a while to get the hang of what's best kept where. For example, the jug for the blender (Oster makes a plastic one) goes next to the stairs (its tall) but the motor (its wide) goes above the sofa. This way they both stay secure without wasting space. That and water in plastic bottles fit quite well in the lockers under the mid-cabin berth, like THREE CASES worth and there's still enough room for other stuff. It's all a matter of finding the right place for stuff.

we have a 2000 328 vista, we on on 2 season and really love the boat. the layout is really thought out, storage everywhere, 3 large hatches ,11' 9' beam, extended swim platform, vacuflush, full camper canvas, all std. equipement. i was in a 2005 sr 320 very nice boat but very little storage, smaller aft, and i would not want to be forced into a merc. powertrain. The four winns design team really do a great job on their large cruisers. i have also owned a 258 and a 278. they were also good boats, but when you get to the bigger cruisers it seems like they are better in layout and design. the one downfall on the 2000 328 is the engine hatch, its 2 pieces instead of a power hatch like on the 2006's. good luck in your purchase, Joe.

Ben,

We were very serious about buying a 2005 348 this time last year but ended up getting a very clean 2003 328 Vista with 30hrs. I liked the 348 design better but couldn't justify in my mind the extra 60K. Here is the equipment on the 348 we considered:

Twin 5.7 GXi/ DP Volo Penta's (320 HP)
Generator
Heat and AC
Windlass
Vacuflush
Flexi-Teak Swim Platform
Stereo Remote at Swim Platform
Gas Vapor Detector
Innerspring Mattress (V-Berth)
Vacuum Cleaner
Deck Sunpads
Cockpit Cover
Camper Canvas
TV/DVD

After some negotiating we were at $169200 with rebates which I thought was a reasonable price given the Chicago boat show price was $176k. Keep in mind though this was for a 2005 and prices have probably gone up some (I'm assuming you are looking at a 2006?). Although not the same boat, we have been very happy with ours.

If you go forward, one thing I can almost guarantee will be a problem for you is the water/holding tank monitor. I learned that the Fireboy/Xintex monitors are prone to fouling and even with regular cleaning (no fun) don't work well. I ended up replacing mine with a more reliable system and FW picked up the cost. Be very careful not to overfill the holding tank as the excellent Vacuflush head will pressurize your holding tank and give you a very unpleasant surprise when you go pump out.

One great thing about Four Winns is the company. Every contact I have had with their customer service has been a 10! Very helpful, reasonable, knowledgable, etc. I can't imagine a better company. Good luck and let us know what you do!

_________________

2014 Vista V435
2011 Glastron GT180
2013 Sea Doo RXT-260

JV,

Please let us know what you find out about your VP interfacing with NMEA2000. I've wanted to buy a NMEA chart plotter that would intervace with the 5.7Gxi's in my boat.

_________________

2014 Vista V435
2011 Glastron GT180
2013 Sea Doo RXT-260

Bill,

I noticed that you said FW was helping you out on the sensor problem. Is your boat still under warranty? Or is this a good will gesture on their part? If it's all good will that's quite impressive.

I'm just wondering if you can identify what you feel like you gave up between the 348 and the 328. I'm not dead set on the 348, though there are a lot of aspects of the boat I really like. In answer to your question of model year, I am looking at a 2006. I know the dealer has had it a while as it was displayed at this year's Chicago boat show.

Thanks for the info
Ben

Here is what I found so far. I'm out of luck The ECM is a Delphi component on my 5.0's and speaks not in SAEJ1939 therefore the J1939 to NMEA2000 gateway I've found won't work. So that leaves me to a time when some manufacturer will put something together for an older engine (2004 seems tone ancient).

Meantime, I just focus on some other cool things like the Bennett NMEA 2000 Trim Tab probe.

_________________
Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

Supposedly Maretron (I think) is working on a regular sensor to NMEA2k black box. That is, you'd take existing tach, temp and pressure signals, run them through the box and get NMEA2k data out the other side. No idea if/when it's shipping or the cost.

That's who I spoke to about the J1939 gateway. Their product is $399. They didn't mention anything else. I hope they do come out with something. There is already a pro e that attaches to the back of your fuel gauge and converts to NMEA2000. Guess I just have to be patient.

_________________
Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

What's of concern regarding the various NMEA2k devices is they all seem to require their own display unit in order to calibrate or otherwise program them. So you need a Lowrance display to program their fuel stuff, a Maretron for theirs, etc, ad nauseum. While it's indeed progress over NMEA-0183 to have unified cabling it's actually harder to handle device programming. With 0183 you could at least just use plain RS232 to speak to the devices. I've yet to find a "simple" way to interface to NMEA2k, let alone find anything resembling documentation on how to actually program any of the devices. So it's step forward on cabling, but a GIANT LEAP backward on the programming, at least thus far...

Ben,

In '03, '04, and '05 Vistas came with a 3 yr. warranty on nonstructural parts and components. This basically covers everything that typically breaks on a newer boat and included the sensors. Since my boat had a year left on the factory warranty, I transferred it to my name for I think $50. Very reasonable and certainly contributed to my peace of mind in buying a used boat. I had a variety of little things like the holding tank monitor, small cracks in the flourescent over head fixtures, bad horn, DVD player that flaked out on occasion, microwave oven that died, and an intermittent tach malfunction. All of this was covered under warranty and I chose to make the repairs myself since the nearest dealer is over an hour from my boat which is kept in the water. In the scheme of things, none of these would have been terribly expensive to repair if it hadn't been under warranty but there are many other things more expensive that could have died. Ultimately I was a little suprised at how many things broke but very few of these can be attributed to the boat builder IMO, they are just faulty items from FW suppliers.

In '06 FourWinns quietly reduced the nonstructural warranty to 2 years. Frankly I couldn't believe it was 3 years as long as it was because from what I could see, that was unmatched in industry (probably why they discontinued it too). Would FW cover some of these items after warranty expires??? Hard to say. They have been so fantastic to deal with that depending on the circumstances, I would say "maybe". If the problem was a design or manufacturing related problem, I'm guessing maybe. I seriously doubt many boat builders would though and if they didn't, I don't think I could hold it against them either.

In regards to the differences...

328
less cost
much larger galley
sleeps 6 vs. 4


348
larger head
separate shower
modern instrumentation layout
2 additional feet in OAL
more headroom in aft cabin
beautiful cabinetry
easier engine access

Initially we fell in love with the 348 at the Chicago boat show when it was introduced there. We spent HOURS combing the boat. The 328 I consider just to be a 1/2 generation older in design... I don't think there is a much of a difference in quality, if any..... all in all an excellent boat. We have ZERO regrets in going with the 328. Soooo many people complement the boat and are totally shocked at the room and design and this is in spite of the fact that there are other nice new 320 Sundancers and 330 Larson Cabrios at our marina. You can't go wrong with either one IMHO, it just comes down to what you are willing to spend.

_________________

2014 Vista V435
2011 Glastron GT180
2013 Sea Doo RXT-260

Bill,

Thanks for the thorough reply. In regards to much of what you point out I think I'm a sucker for some of the aesthetics. I love the instrument layout on the 348, though I wish they were using e series displays not the c's. I really like the seperate shower and the cabinetry is a great atep forward in appearance. All that said, I was really suprised to see how little the 328 gives up in beam and the galley is a nice bit bigger.

The most interesting thing I've seen so far is that I've not been able to find a 328 for any less money than the 348s I've come across. I think comparing the useage of space between the sundancers and vistas is a very favorable excercise for the four winns boats. There is much more wasted space on a Sundancer.

Thanks
Ben