www.iFourWinns.com

Dear Boat Forum Members:

I am living near Lake Mead Nevada and strongly considering a first boat. I have navigated boats before when volunteering for National Park Service. I now have a wife and 3 year old son. We are looking serviously at a 1995 Four Winns Vista 238 which appears in very good shape. It has the 5.8 L Ford motor and rebuilt outdrive. Hours are unknown, but the boat looks VERY clean. No radio, and really no extras at all. Just a bimini top and a trailer.

Is this boat worth $10k? Can I later get a generator and AC/heat - which I think I will need for Lake Mead summers/winters as we plan to do weekend camping trips on the boat? How about camper canvas tops, are those worth the money?

Any and all opinions will be GREATLY appreciated!!!

Doc

my buddy just bought a 95 238 yesterday for the same price tag, this one needs some attention but otherwise a decent boat. you are probably right on the book value but as i always say, book values never bought or sold anything.

Thanks for the quick reply! Any thoughts on whether I could somehow get some AC into the cabin? The Vegas summers are brutal, if we can only enjoy this for a few months in the Fall/Spring, it is hardly worth it...

Thanks again.

You should be able find an AC/Heat unit to fit that boat, provided there's some storage space big enough to house it. You'd need to also have space to mount the water pump and of course, you'll have to add a through-hull for the water intake. Your duct-work might have to be a little limited since that is usually installed during the build rather than after-the-fact, but that shouldn't be a big issue.

For the generator, most guys would probably recommend the Honda Euro 2000 instead of a marine gen set. These are VERY quiet and fuel efficient and for ~ $1K they're cost effective too. The marine generator will cost you at least $6K if you do the work yourself. and that's assuming you have room in the engine compartment to house it.

As for the price of the boat given it's age, I would not really add any value for the trailer to the boat's price. The reason is that unless the trailer was meticulously maintained, it will probably cost you $1000 to get it safe and to where you know it's reliable (tires, brakes, wheel bearings, bunks, etc.). I would do a close inspection of the trailer and adjust your offer accordingly.

Another thing on your side is that boats are moving slowly and you're buying at the best time so you might be able to save enough to make some of your upgrades.

Joe

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USCG 50 Ton Master Inland/OUPV Endorsement+Towing

1998 278 Vista - Twin 4.3 GLs, Kohler 4KW Gen, AC/Heat.
1999 Yamaha Waverunner SUV
2003 Yamaha Waverunner SUV w/MR-1 HO conversion

IF you could shoehorn a gen set and everything needed for A/C in that boat, you are talking almost half the $'s that you will pay for the boat. The boat itself sounds like a decent deal.

To me, floating around on a lake, inside the cabin with A/C on just doesn't seem like boating to me. It's okay for some but not all.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

A quick scan of boat trader shows only one '95 238 (click on it to see listing) for, guess how much? $10,000. Search the listings - not a perfect science as asking prices are always higher than what boats fetch, but it's good additional info to consider.

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

Retrofitting air conditioning and/or a generator to a boat that doesn't have one is not an inexpensive proposition. It can be done. It's a good idea to confirm ahead of time whether that model of boat had the option for factory air. If it did then you've at least got a chance of running the necessary hoses and vents. If not then it becomes an added hassle trying to find places to hide all the gear and route all the hoses and vents. Best bet would be to contact the factory directly and ask them about it.

Bear in mind, you generally cannot run the air conditioning off batteries. You have to use a generator. It can be a built-in one or a portable. There are arguments for and against either selection but one will have to be present if you want to run the AC overnight.

So you're adding the AC compressor, two through-hull fittings, a strainer and hoses, the air vents, the thermostat and then the 110v electrical wiring. Since service rates vary, I'd check around locally to get estimates on installing the setup.

Oh, and how good a boat looks is important, but not as important as how many hours are on the engine. I don't know that I'd be willing to pay book for any boat, and certainly not one without some documentation on the hours.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Thanks Guys! This really helps. I may pass on this one and keep looking. Any suggestions on the right boat to look for? I am hearing the OMC drives are useless and should be avoided... What brands of boats/drives/motors are reliable and will meet the needs I outlined above?

Cheers!

On a boat worth $10K you really don't want to spend another $10K installing AC and a generator. Assuming you understand the risks, a portable Honda generator could power a carry-on air conditioner. This way you can always move this investment to the next boat.

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2008 V358 Two-tone Blue V/P Dual Prop 320 HP
Lake Winnipesaukee, NH

Just installing a generator alone will be 10k... I've priced out the Westerbeke 3.0 and Kohler 5.0 ECD and either of those will cost $6000.00 and that does not include all the ancillary needed componentry.

I'd say if you was mechanically inclined and had the room to do the AC, the AC could be done for 2 grand and powered off a Honda EU2000i for $875 ish.. But that is assuming there is even a place to mount all the ac components on the boat.

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Brett DiMichele

I'd not be rushing into any boat decision, boats are not selling because the economy is so bad, and fuel is still expensive.
This boat is going on 14 years old, anything could be wrong with it. I'd start with having a surveyor, or very knowldgeable boat person, check the hull, deck, transom, etc for rot, delamination and fiberglass damage, with the boat out of the water. Rot problems are very difficult to repair and expensive. Been there done that.
Then turn to the power package. Find out what year the engine/drive is. If it is a 95, then it falls into the joint venture OMC/Volvo years, and if so the OMC is a Volvo SX in OMC paint. So no worries about it being an OMC. If it's a Merc, well then just have a merc mechanic look at it, otherwise you need a Volvo guy.

Then do a good sea trial, check to see if it runs right, doesn't overheat (normal temp for most OMC/Volvos is 160) and shifts right. It should pull up to its max RPM range (usually between 4400-4800 or so rpms). Make sure it doesn't jump out of gear, (try reverse too!) and there is no grumbling, rumbling etc when turing the wheel left and right at low speeds. When you pull the boat out, pull the drain on the drive to see if water comes out before gear oil. If so the drive needs to be resealed. Check the engine oil for signs of water in the oil (high oil level, milkyness in the oil). Water in the engine oil is bad, walk away.

Oh and about those "useless" OMCs, well I have a well maintained one that has been on my boat 20 years, and half of that, in salt water 6 months of the year. Still shifts well. If they are maintained well Cobras are as good as any, but the company has been out of business a long time and service is not easy to get. I have a great OMC mechanic so it's been fine for me.

Don't rush into any boat purchase, once you have it, it won't be that easy to sell in this economy.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I agree with Lou and actually I would highly recommend spending the $300-$500 dollars on a Marine Survey by a S.A.M.A Accredited Surveyor. A survey entails checking the hull for moisture content, voids, rot, etc.. Checking all of the mechanical , sea trial etc.

That small amount of money can save you thousands, even tens of thousands!

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Brett DiMichele

Sounds like a very good idea, but do you think these inspectors are available in Las Vegas - Lake Mead? We have limited boating compared to many of the areas represented here....

Thanks!

Sorry I meant S.A.M.S I typo'd

Yes there should be surveyors in your area.

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Brett DiMichele

Thanks again guys. PLEASE try to look at the link below for the ad. It seems he is firm at $10k. If you can see the link, let me know what you think. I will paste the text below too.

THANKS!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 0290016215

You are bidding on a 1995 Four Winns cabin cruiser with a 5.8L Ford fuel injected engine and Cobra outdrive. This boat is exactly what you are dreaming about if you want to enjoy the lake for a weekend camping excursion or a day trip of tubing, fishing or teaching the kids how to ski! After you've played hard all day there is no need to go anywhere because the super clean galley sleeps 4 comfortably, with a separate sleeping berth for two that has a privacy curtain. There is room for two more in the main galley area when the dining table top is removed, the dining area transforms into another bed. Bring your food and beverages on board and store what needs to be kept cold in the under counter refrigerator/freezer next to the sink. The head provides complete privacy with a closed door and is located next to the separate sleeping berth.

This boat has very low hours, the original owner was a woman who purchased it to take her kids out on the lake, which she tried a few times, but never got feeling comfortable with handling it because the size was a little more than she could comfortably handle. The second owner was a local politician (female also) and she took the boat out twice and the rest of the time she owned it, it sat in storage. We've had the boat for four years now, and only had it out four times for partial day excursions on Lake Mead. It has never been on salt water and has been professionally serviced and maintained. We have the original Owner's Manual. Three out of four of the trailer tires are new. As far as any problems with the boat, I don't know of anything that is not mechanically sound. She starts right up and runs like a top. The hull has a few chips, dents and scratches but nothing major, and for her age, this boat is a sharp looker! The L-shape seat in the back needs a new support bracket. The vinyl seats are in decent shape with no rips or tears. There is a bimini top, and cabin / cockpit cover (missing a few snaps), transom shower - cold, and a swim platform with a fold down ladder. I replaced the factory stereo with a newer custom unit, but the stereo was stolen, so at this time there is no stereo.