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| Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3011 |
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| Author: | sergtech [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? |
Hello all, I wish this was a more cheerful first post regarding my new to me... 2005 Vista 268. long story short. We just bought the boat used, new it needed some TLC since it had been neglected for 2 to 3 months. took the boat out to test everything and found some issues. started white smoking. turned around and took it to the mechanic. this was a salt water boat. some electrical needs to be fixed. the anchor spool is stripped. The generator is making a whisping/knocking sound. and the smoke is probably from a worn impeller. now to my problem. They are saying that they cant work on the generator with out taking the engine out first. This sounded preposterous at first. but after looking at the location of the gen. I dont see how they would work on the far side of the gen if it needs it. To be honest the gen noise sounds like piston slap or blown head gasket. can that type of issue be worked on with out taking the engine out?? Keep in mind they need to check the engine for damage from the blown impeller. It did over heat enugh on one side that the manifold paint bubbled up. WHat do you think? is this needed for the gen? |
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| Author: | Cap'n Morgan [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? |
Yes. There is not enough room to adequately diagnose the gen-set problem in that boat with out removing the engine. White smoke, and overheating does not sound good. Hopefully you did not damage the cylinder walls during the overheat. I know what you are going through, I have gone through engine issues on a new to us boat before, it is not a pleasant way to start your time with a new boat. Good luck |
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| Author: | jsimon [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? |
I concur with Cap n Morgan.... I installed a genset in our 03 268. It was a Westerbeke nd not a Kohler, I put ours on the port side, vs starboard like a factory Kohler install. I was able to get it in without removing the engine, but I did have to take the riser, manifold, alternator and alternator bracket off, and it just BARELY fit. Not positive, but the kohler might be a touch bigger, and if it has a sound shield the engine would definately have to come out. Hope it works out for you. |
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| Author: | cougarcruiser [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? |
even on teh 318 -- you are pulling a motor if you need the generator out of the boat. fortunately, you can also unbolt the genny and pull it forward a few inches for better access on the backside. A major pain in the ass. |
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| Author: | sergtech [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? |
Thanks all. It still just seems that if you can pull the same items off the engine on the starbard side. That the kholer can come out as well. I mean if not. What the heck was Four Winns thinking? The engine only has 65 plus hours. and the gen has 80 plus. I still smell a desperate boat shop. |
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| Author: | jsimon [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? |
sergtech wrote: Thanks all. It still just seems that if you can pull the same items off the engine on the starbard side. That the kholer can come out as well. I mean if not. What the heck was Four Winns thinking? The engine only has 65 plus hours. and the gen has 80 plus. I still smell a desperate boat shop. As far as Four Winns is concerned, they only have so much space, and if customers are asking for gennys, they fit them in regardless what it takes to ge them out, and if someone hasnt taken care of thier stuff, ie oil change winterizing properly, it could fail in way less than 80 hours..... Not sticking up for the boat shop, but having went the other way, I dare say if you have done it once or twice, you could probably pull the engine and reinstall in the time it takes to do it the what I did, and be sure you have enought room do get the generator out. Off the top..... fuel line, risers hoses, wiring harness, 2 motor mounts bolts, battery hot and ground and out it comes. Just my 2 cents |
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| Author: | Cap'n Morgan [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? |
If the engine needs to be pulled due to the overheat condition, as well as the gen-set work, you may need a new head at minimum due to warping or other damage internally, then you should think about replacing the drive coupler while you are at it. The engine has to be pulled to replace it anyway, and if this salty boat was neglected and ran hard, chances are the coupler is also in need of replacing. You don't want an engine drive failure down the road, after you spend all the money to get the gen-set and engine fixed. So I take it you did not have the boat surveyed, engine compression check and a sea trial before you bought the boat ? Please keep us updated with what transpires. |
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| Author: | wkearney99 [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? |
The sound shield comes off. It'll be a dozen or so 1/4" head sheet metal screws but it comes off completely. There's two sides, the two ends and the top. That'll leave it just as bare as one without the shield. The only extra part is the bottom of the shield and the pad under it. But that can be likewise dropped once the genset is raised a bit. If I had to remove the genset on our 348 I know the entire port side of the port engine's exhaust would have to be removed. Along with having to use a forklift to remove the engine hatch. When faced with big work like this don't be afraid to call or e-mail Four Winns and ask them for the recommended repair procedure. They do seem to put effort into making sure the major assemblies are serviceable without having to start cutting up fiberglass. What they recommend might not seem like the obvious way to do it if you didn't know their short cuts. I would not assume the dealer knows this (at least not the dealer I've had to put up with). |
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| Author: | sergtech [ Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? |
Update. First let me answer a few questions. Yes I did get it independently surveyed. It came out fine but in need of TLC. It was not completely sea trialed only a few laps forward and back at sub 10knots. I knew coming in this boat would require some work. Since I last posted, I took my boat away from shady (Phil Dill Boats Dallas) mostly because everyone I talked to in the boating industry said they were going way over board on the repair estimates for my boat. This info came from a few unbiased 20 plus year boat mechanics and quite a few life long boating friends I have. I finally took it to (Eagle Marine in Fort Worth) where everyone said they care less about the bending people over and more about repeat clientele. From the moment I walked in I could tell the service would be respectful and honest. So far what started out as a massive mechanical and electrical overhaul of my boat. Has become a fraction of the total estimate. For starters: Nothing is wrong with warping or head issues. It over heated because the impeller had been replaced with out clearing an flushing the cooling system. the right side was clogged hence the heat. The left had some debris but is fine as well. problem solved. result? Engine was not taken out. Generator noise was from bad impeller. Imagine that. It wasn't the blown head gasket that Phil Dill Boats said it was. He was able to work on the gen while the right side of the motor happened to be disassembled. Result? No more gen issues at all. Problem solved. Now they are working on a few electrical issues I had and they have already said nothing but a few buttons and wiring may need to be replaced. Where Phil Dill Boats said I would have to have just about everything electrical replaced due to corrosion. My suspicions were right about Phil Dill boats. I think they saw a new boat owner with little experience as an easy mark. They over estimated the repairs ridiculously to see what I would let stick. In short, I wouldn't trust taking my boat there ever again. As to working on the generator with out taking the motor out. It can certainly be done by a qualified mechanic that doesn't mind the work. |
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| Author: | M3eater [ Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? |
Good news is certainly good to hear! Glad to hear this much better report. |
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| Author: | cougarcruiser [ Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? |
Boy - that's got to make you feel VERY happy! Great to hear! Are you changing out all fluids and flushing everything to give yourself a fresh start? WHile you have swapped out all that stuff, is it worth while to do plugs/filters/and any other maintenance items? |
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| Author: | txvista [ Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? |
Good to hear it is working out. I'm also glad to get your opinion on Phil Dill. I just bought a used Four Winns privately here in Dallas, and needing to get some minor repairs. I was going to call Phil Dill since they are the only Four Winns dealer in the area, but decided against it and went with another service. I never got a quote from them, but it just didn't feel right in the little contact I had with them in the past. |
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| Author: | sergtech [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? |
I am having them do only the necessary repairs and preventative maintenance. They are constantly in contact with me about what they are doing. So far so good. It looks like we are starting fresh for sure. I can only speak about my personal experience with Phil Dill Boats. They tried to pull a fast one on me. I opted for a second opinion. I can't say that it would happen to anyone else. But, buyer beware at that place. |
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| Author: | wkearney99 [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do you have to remove the engine to work on the generator? |
I am glad to see someone naming names and telling tales. Now we all know who to avoid in the Dallas area. |
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