www.iFourWinns.com

Need your opinions. Toying with the idea of buying a 2006 V378 locally. Clean boat with low hours. Sounds like the seller in financially desperate. Broker has it listed at $165,000. Informal talks I offered $142,000. I based this price on the "new" leftover 2007 that cougarcruiser told us about in Seattle selling for $173,000. Basically, additional 5% deduct for one year older, minus options difference when comparing the two boats such as bow thruster, private state room, flexiteak swim platform, satellite TV system and cockpit cover. Not to tmention the 2007 boat included full factory warranty. With this boat comparison, does $142,000 sound like a good deal?

Now my trade-in. 2002 Vista 328. Great condition, approx. 250 hours, new bimini w/enclosures and cockpit cover ($7,000 last year) and new cockpit carpeting. All options except it has no genny.

Realistically, if their boat is discounted I can't expect premium dollar for mine. Where in your opinion should I expect to get for my trade? Average NADA $69,410 or $80,470, depending how NADA works. Does the basic price in NADA include the items that were standard that year, or do you apply the listed options to determine price? That's the $11,000 difference. What should I hold firm at?

All opinions appreciated!

At first glance it seems like a terrific deal - it is certainly the lowest priced 2006 378 online after a quick search. Please be sure to have it surveyed and have your deal contingent upon your satisfaction with the survey. I can't speak to your trade, but I always recommend that people arrive at a purchase price independent of the trade.

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you - it's obviously a great move if it all works out!

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

I had my contract subject to financing, survey, and personal inspection. My new loan was contingent on my current boat loan being paid off. It sure saved me when the buyer backed out.

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2007 358 T-5.7GXi IB
Previous Boats
'08 H240, '08 V318, '04 268, '04 225

In this market, NADA doesn't mean a whole helluva lot. Dealers are trying to unload leftovers which is why many don't have 09's. 09s the price margin was increased by ~12% due to petro prices being high when FW puchased their raw materials. People with 08's that are used are just sick at what I tell them I can buy a "new" leftover 08 for. Your best bet is to sell it yourself - that's what I'll be doing. There was a guy on here recently with a 328 who was offered I think 25K for his trade allowance!!?? I think I heard of an 08 318 the dealer told me he offered ~80K for it on a trade. The same boat was probably purchased for 150-160 not even 12 months ago. Be prepared to take a bath or just sell it privately.

+1 I agree 100%.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

It's been a month since my original post. Been dealing back and forth with the broker and here is where we are at. We offered our 2002 Vista 328 plus $60k for a 2006 Vista 378 which was listed at $165k.

Today the broker said the seller would go no lower than $71,250 plus our boat, then the broker is buying our 328 from the seller for an unknown amount.

Back to my original post, I value the 378 at $145k based on previous known sales and other listed boats. So lets say I'm buying at $145k, minus $71,250, they are offering us $73,750 as trade for our 328.

Deal subject to survey, sea trail and us securing acceptable financing.

Going to counter for last time at our 328 plus $68k. Thoughts?

Like any deal if you feel good with the pricing and terms go for it. There is a good chance you will find a better deal later, but maybe not. There is also a chance that the market gets better and you are buying at the low and will be really happy you bought now. If you want to do it, the deal feels right, and you can afford it then it's a good deal.

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2000 268 Vista "Reely Nauti"
http://www.facebook.com/#!/rivercruiser

+1 to that.

Try your offer... you never know. but if you love the boat, don't let 3 grand separate you from it. Unless - it's worth it to you.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

$73 K is not bad for a trade in on your 328. But, selling it yourself , you know it would bring $83K in a heartbeat, if you found the right buyer. Have you listed your 328 and tried to sell it yourself ? The 378 price is decent, but not a screaming deal. If you are not real eager to make this deal happen, I would suggest you make the counter offer you have stated, see what happens. If your proposal is not accepted, I have a feeling that in another month or less, it would be. In the meantime, list your boat , if you have not already, keep looking for the boat you want, at the price you want to pay. It's now boating season here, and more boats are being listed for good prices. Also, later in the season, some deals could be had, as owners do not want to pay for winter storage, and may reduce prices to move the boat.

Good Luck.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

Thanks for the reply folks. I personally think $145k is a good/fair price for the 378. But you really think I could get $80k or more for mine on a private sale? No arguement intended Cap'n but the link you provided under the "Boat Shopping" disussion shows that 2000 328 with a asking price of $62,900 and it's not selling. Comparing mine to that one in Grand Rapids which I'm assuming has a genny would be $62,900 minus $3,000 for no genny, would be $59,900. Add 3% for two years to account for age difference would make mine equivilent comparison at $63,550 if I'm thinking correctly.

As you can tell I'm trying to talk myself either into this or out of it. I think the economy timing is right if I do it. Been watching the 6-month Treasury bonds interest increase which in the past has always been a good indicator of the general economy. Mortgage lender anticipates that current rates will increase in the next couple weeks.

Decisions, decisions. I need a larger boat like I need another head. Was planning the jump in three years but the timing sems right. We'll see.

The 328 here does not have a gen set. Not many used boats are selling around here. This area has been hit worse than most by the economy issues.

As for your 2002 328. Yes, $83K is a good price. Compare to what these are asking for the same year 328.

http://www.yachttraderonline.com/listin ... A-94016539

http://www.sailboattraderonline.com/lis ... 9/brochure

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2002- ... a-94932281

The above are just a couple of examples, you can find salty 2002's in FLA. for $79K to $82K.
And I did not compare feature to feature. I would buy your's for $63K today , if you were serious, and I was ready to make the move. Someone who is actually looking for a boat like yours, and had the financial means, would be scratching a check for $63K before you could finish eating a girl scout cookie.

The economy/ interest rates you mention are definately worth considering, but should not be your sole motivation to trade up. One good thing about the trade in, is it is a clean, hassle free deal for you. Yes, you will not get what your boat is worth, and not get the 378 for what it is worth. But selling a boat can be the most agonizing excerise one can go through. Haggling for price, sea trials, rude buyers, payments etc.

So, for now, sit back, take a sip of a tall cool one, and ponder the possibilities a bit more.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

Cap't, I've never had better advice. Need to step back and catch my breath on this one. I'm feeling rushed because it's the start of boating season and either way it works, I want to know which boat I'll be enjoying it in.

Let's brake this deal down. Let's assume I'm buying the 2006 V378 for $145,000. Is it an average/good/great deal?

Second, they are offering us $73,750 for our 2002 V328 as trade. Average/good/great deal?

Cap't, you misread the trade value as $63,000.

Oooops.... I guess I was thinking if you took 63K as a trade in, you would take 63K in cash. But you need the trade to make the deal. Duh.

I think $145 is a good deal. No IPS I assume. Is the 378 in the Sturgeon Bay/Green Bay area?

I'm sure you have compared to these already.

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2006- ... r-94408903

http://www.boatingbay.com/listings/2005 ... 30672.html

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

Deals are different for everyone.

I do think 145k for a 2006 378 in fantastic shape is a VERY good deal. That is a deal you won't see very often.

As for your trade... If the market shows a sale price (private/broker/dealer) of around 83k - figure a dealer needs 10-15% to cover themselves for flooring/profit/cleanup/servicing, etc.

If they are offering you 73k on a trade - that's within fair reason.

What sort of sales tax credit do you get on a trade versus outright sale? I know that for me - a trade in is less hassle and I usually make up any difference in price with the credit I get back on sales tax over a private sale. That's been my trend with cars, boats, etc. Plus, my sales tax is deductible, so what I do end up paying - I get a chunk of it back.

There are lots of factors. Could you sell your boat for 83k to a private seller? Sure. What's it going to cost you to get your boat in 'sellable for top dollar' condition? And remember, buyers are like you - they are looking for the sweet deals.

Being a seller - on trade in or private - pretty much sucks right now. period.

Being a buyer - you can make up the selling 'losses'.

At the end of the day - will the current deal make you jump for joy? If it does, take it. If it doesn't - what deal or boat will? The last thing you want is to be left with the feeling of "oh crud, I got bent over".

I probably paid too much for my 318. At least, I'm sure I did when people are buying and selling them for 100k. Some of the deals are CRAZY out there right now. Fortunately, there's no 318 out there that I love more than mine. EVC motors, optioned up just the way I want it. It was perfect for me. I knew that boat was mine when I got the call on it. Although, I should have renamed her the 'money pit'. It's just a feeling you will get/have. When it's right, it's right. Whether it's the boat or the deal that get you there. You'll know.

If you feel that way about the 378 - don't miss out.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

It's a done deal! Signed the papers this past Friday and she is in the slip. Can't say everything went smoothly at SB's but we got the price where we wanted. Pictures to come!

Thanks for those who offered advice along the way. One thing learned, this was our first purchase of a brokered boat. Made the buying process more cumbersome than it needed to be. Would much rather deal with the private party one-on-one or with a dealer owned boat.