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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:32 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Well as I'm sure most of you have experienced at some point, both holding tank sending units no longer work.
Waste level flashes on empty and fresh water either flashes empty or reads full all the time. I've been looking at the external units but I'm leaning towards the Fireboy-Xintex Pneumatic Senders that are direct replacements. That way I don't have to replace any wiring. :mrgreen:

http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/liquid-level-monitors.htm

There is a previous thread here from last January that asks the same question without reply so I'm asking again.

Has anyone tried these yet?

I'm just curious to know before I lay out $300.00 cdn.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:44 am 
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Location: Live Manchester England, Boat Aberystwyth, Wales, UK
planealternative wrote:
Has anyone tried these yet?

I'm just curious to know before I lay out $300.00 cdn.


Just noticed that ShanMan14 has one of these units on his Vista that is up for sale, maybe you could send a PM to ask him how it perfoms. I'd be interested to know as well.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:21 am 
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I have those on my vista and they are just as bad as the others. My holding reads 1/4 when empty but reads ok after that.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:51 pm 
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Shame no-one offers a cheap ultrasonic version; used widely for material level determination in bulk chemical tanks, works just like sonar with no moving/ contact parts (until the holding tank contents reach the sender/ detector !)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:03 pm 
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I'm very interested in this also. My holding tank reads 3/4 full, but its empty, and my fresh water just flashes on E, wiring is fine. There is "Snake River" monitors, that I'm looking into.

http://www.snake-river.org

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:37 pm 
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It is my understanding that the new units must be 1" shorter than the originals ...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:29 am 
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I had one of what I think it the previous generation of their sending units and STRONGLY discourage their use. The problem is the tube would get clogged up inside it. This requires unscrewing the whole sensor from the tank to clean it. I replaced mine with one that has three level sensors. These can also get stuff stuck on them but it generally works loose just by wave action. The old Xintex unit's upward tube, once clogged, would generally not rinse loose. If the new sensor has the same sort of tube then I would NOT use it.

I'd be more inclined to look into the type of sensor that fits on the outside of the tank. It's some sort of foils sensor that detects the level externally.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:19 am 
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The new units designed in 2008 claim per Xintex website:

New design electronics provide high reliability and long life with zero current draw except for the short periods required for level checking. Senders are simple, solidly constructed units with no moving parts, thus no floats to stick. Hookup consists of simply connecting 12 VDC power and the two-wire senders.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:41 am 
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beyond the blue wrote:
planealternative wrote:
Has anyone tried these yet?

I'm just curious to know before I lay out $300.00 cdn.


Just noticed that ShanMan14 has one of these units on his Vista that is up for sale, maybe you could send a PM to ask him how it perfoms. I'd be interested to know as well.



I do?! :D I seriously don't know if they are pneumatic or float, but I'd guess float.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:18 pm 
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MCLKS wrote:
New design electronics provide high reliability and long life with zero current draw except for the short periods required for level checking. Senders are simple, solidly constructed units with no moving parts, thus no floats to stick. Hookup consists of simply connecting 12 VDC power and the two-wire senders.


The previous ones had not moving parts or floats. That's no guarantee. What they used was a hollow tube with some sort of wiring running up it. The hollow tube would get clogged and could not clear itself. I'd worry that something 'pneumatic' would likewise have the risk of gunk getting up into it.

As for re-using the existing wire, I wouldn't plan on it. I put a new sensor into the tank on our 348. I found it was trivially simple to run new wire. There's enough open area under there to snake a new wire through without much hassle.

I let FW give me an alternative sensor setup. It uses floats and has remained accurate for two seasons now. Had I been paying for it myself I think it'd have be better to go with the external foil kind.

Maybe this new Xintex thing is worthwhile. But until I actually saw one or understood how it operates I'd remain VERY SKEPTICAL.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:48 am 
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I purchased the "new design" Fireboy senders for my 268V this spring. I have been very happy with them so far even though they are somewhat pricey

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:35 am 
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SpecialK wrote:
I purchased the "new design" Fireboy senders for my 268V this spring. I have been very happy with them so far even though they are somewhat pricey


Have you had the tank get full and sit that way for a few days? That's what leads to problems with nearly all in-tank sensors. It's the combination of solids (people waste and proper tank-friendly paper) in the tank and then having it sit for a while that leads to trouble. I'm not talking weeks here, more like the span of a few days. Like using it all weekend, letting it sit until next Friday before pumping out. Paper and what-not gets caked to the sensor. Then you pump out and whatever was left behind then hardens in the open air space of the less full tank (they're never fully empty, trust me on this). Then even when more waste water is added the gunk on the sensors doesn't work loose. It was a supreme hassle with the previous Xintex column sensor.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:45 pm 
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Here is Al's DIY for his tank monitors on his 268V. FWIW

http://members.toast.net/boatguy/proj-3.htm

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:09 pm 
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My guess is that being pneumatic, they work on trapping air in the tube sort of like pushing an upside down cup into a bucket of water. The higher the fluid level on the outside of the tube, the greater the pressure inside. If this is the case (and again I'm guessing), there shouldn't be any fluids or solids entering the tube to clog it up.

Sounds like it could work. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:17 pm 
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planealternative wrote:
My guess is that being pneumatic, they work on trapping air in the tube sort of like pushing an upside down cup into a bucket of water. The higher the fluid level on the outside of the tube, the greater the pressure inside. If this is the case (and again I'm guessing), there shouldn't be any fluids or solids entering the tube to clog it up.


That would depend on where the diaphragm is located. If it's at the bottom of the column it'd be less likely to gum up. But if it has any sort of hollow tube rising up into the column it will VERY likely get gummed up. The macerator between the toilet and the tank grinds things up relatively well. Enough that turns the paper into wispy sorts of threads. Those tended to get up inside the column in the old Xintex sensor. When you pump out the tank never gets entirely empty. This leaves a chance for those tiny shreds of paper to get up inside that column. Then, as the waste level rises and sloshes around in the waves, the bits get worked up higher into the tube. When you pump out they sometimes stay stuck inside the column, where they dry and harden once the level drops again.

If you're just holding a drinking glass into some water the level inside it will not rise. But if you start sloshing the water and glass around there's a chance that the level inside the glass will rise. Were it just staying still I agree it'd work great. But the movement makes for problems. With float sensors at least you're getting the sloshing action working to keep the gunk moving off the floats. Or that they'll be likely to loosen up when the level rises again.

Anyway, I've had to replace a tank sender fitting so I'm more familiar than I EVER WANTED TO BE with waste tank issues. I'm still having a devil of a time with waste water getting up into the vent line and then blocking it from working properly.

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