www.iFourWinns.com

Hi,

As mentioned above I am looking for a 2002-2004 Vista 248 / 268 in our area (MA) starting next week we'll start to look at some boats. I have read (and posted) on this and numerous forums but it seems every few days I have more and more questions.

We live in the US but the boat will be shipped / destined to Croatia via Baltimore and Germany. Before we purchase the boat we are going to get a survey and a mechanical (compression test). However, when we go to see the boat in person - I am wondering what kind of things we should look for.

1. The boat will either be in water or on the ground; if it's in water we cannot get a look to see if there is any damage or repair on the hull or transom. I presume this will be taken care of as part of a marine survey or shall we ask for special considerations?
2. Most private boat sellers are using brokers - do we need to get a broker to guide us on the price, or are we ok as just solo purchasers / consumers?
3. In our first initial inspection of the boat what should we look at: condition of the interior/engine/etc?
4. When is it ok to ask for a Sea Trial or at least a short hop (like 20 minutes)? Parents are buying a boat but they have no idea clue what it is like to be in any power cruiser much less a Vista. I know with new boats a sea trial is final stage of a purchase, but we are in initial stage of looking at boats and do not want to inconvenience a seller and then walk away from the purchase.

To build on the question above - we tried asking around friends if anyone has a cruiser to give us a short ride but no success. Living in New England and with the winter around the corner I am afraid everyone will pull their boat out and we won't be able to test it.

5. Once a boat is purchased we need to make arrangements for shipping the boat to Baltimore, Germany, etc. Before that we have to re-register the boat. We live in MA where there is a sales tax. In NH and RI there is no sales tax on boats and you do not have to be resident to register it there. You just have to have the intention of using/storing it there. Well, as we are shipping it abroad we need to have it registered under a US flag because in Croatia we would need to pay a 40% customs and tax plus we won't be able to permanently register it because US crusiers do not have CE certification.

Where can the boat reside until we make these arrangements, i.e. shipping, etc? I mean if we buy locally does this mean we have to haul the boat to our house? We would also like any minor repairs done before we ship it, put new decals on, install a GPS if required, winterize the boat, and cover it to protect it before long distance shipping. We would also like the local (marina) mechanic to do any service before the boat goes overseas? What is usually the process / procedure / arrangement for this kind of stuff? If we were to install a GPS can we get a company to come install it where the boat is? We do not have any SUV that can trail the boat.

I am sure I will have more questions but I think this is good enough for starters.

Thanks!

Edit: I used http://www.yatchtrader.com to find used listings. I know there are a bunch of sites listing used boats but most seem to show same listings. What is the best place online to go an look for used boats? Is there like a broker database? Thanks!

Pricey in Croatia aren't they........
A 2008 278 Vista, w/ diesel power (I wish we had that choice here).
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2008/Fo ... nj/Croatia

_________________
One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

Which ever way we slice and dice it comes up cheaper, even with CE certification, shipping to Germany then to Croatia, the import tax you still save.

The best thing about a boat like this is that American cruisers are among the best built hulls according to many Europeans and they are especially sea worthy on the Adriatic given then heavy hull design. An there aren't too many FW around there so it will be an interesting and unique addition to the marina.

The worst thing - $5.85/gallon. At 30l/hour cruising speed on a Vista, it is not going to be an inexpensive pleasure. I too wish they sold Diesel here - just like with cars - but the price difference between the Euro and US version buys a lot of gas.

Do I understand correctly?

You are curently in Mass (where?)? And, you'd like to purchase the boat from this area?

What options do you consider "must haves"?

What is your realistic purchasing time frame?

_________________
Gordon Arnold
New Hampshire

2003 268 Vista ..................................................................Prior: 97 245 Sundowner

- We live in Brookline, MA all year long except in the summer when we go to Croatia. The boat will go to Croatia.
- The boat should be pre-owned but in excellent condition 248 or 268 (not larger) with 8.6 beam and trail able as we need to ship RoRO
- It is my parents buying the boat; we need it for next summer but they would like to take care of this in the fall as I won't be around to help with research / purchase etc
- The features I would like to have are: adequately powered engine (per other thread), windlass, canvass/bimini top, outside hot water shower/water access, white or navy colored hull (no funky color), trailer

Consider purchasing in NH. They have two good FW dealers [last I checked], Winnesquam and Melvin Village. You may get a better deal there and perhaps save on taxes.

I live in hyde park which is only fifteen minutes from brookline, i would be more than happy to show you my 2005 268 vista. i store it on a trailer in Brockton. maybe even a ride in the harbor.

Would I be able to register the boat in NH if we purchase there? What if its purchased from a private party? I think the law is such that you have the intention of using it in NH or mooring it there that you can register it in NH. We would, however, ship the boat overseas and keep it there. We do need it registered in NH - or any other US state for that matter so we can drive it with a US flag.

Thanks!

Ah taxes, make 'em high enough and people will jump through flaming hoops to get around them.

In the US if you use a boat in a state for more than a certain period of time you have to get it registered in that state. I wonder if they do the same thing in Croatia? You're essentially doing that. Is there going to be a local registration required for it? And what are the penalties if/when they catch on to the scheme? Might want to know that ahead of time as that might affect the overall value of the 'deal'.

I'm guessing you're also looking at having to get the boat officially 'documented' by the US Coat Guard, correct? That's independent of US state registration. I wonder if you even need a state registration at all? You won't be using it in a US state, certainly not for long enough to matter.

But I don't travel with the boat so I really don't know all the in-and-outs of registrations and taxes.

_________________
-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

The import tax in Croatia is approximately 11%. On top of that there is another tax on boats (not sure exact percentage) that is there to protect the local shipbuilders. And in addition to that there is 22% VAT which means the overall amount we would need to pay for the boat is approximately 40% of the value of the boat. However, it's not even that simple. For any boat to be registered in Croatia it has to have a CE certification which isn't that simple and is not cheap (approximately $2000-$4000). CE certification requires a detail inspection of the boat to ensure the boat conforms to EU requirements; I contacted the CE authority and there are only 5 people in the US that can do it (one in Croatia). They need to spend good time with the boat and it will require changes here and there.

Therefore - Croatia - like most European countries made it near dear impossible and very expensive for people to purchase a boat. That's why a $40K boat sells for $70k over there. However, Croatia is a small country with a large seaside that is highly dependent on tourism. The majority of yatch and boat visitors in Croatia are from outside Croatia and many of them like to keep their boats there. In order to circumvent strict customs, the Ministry responsible for sea has made ways for foreigners to have and store foreign registered boats over there.

The general rule is that the boat can reside in the country for 6 months of a year. However, customs made an arrangement with various dry marinas that when the boat is winterized and stored in a dry marina, it satisfies the customs requirement and does not need to be driven outside the country.

All foreigners need to get a yearly vignette (around ~$100) and must submit a Crew List. If a Crew List is out of date when pulled by the local coastguard, the boat can get seized and impounded. The boat also cannot be driven by local nationals, only by owner and the authorized personnel.

As we are US citizens it doesn't make sense of us to import the boat. Even when we want to sell it as long as we sell it to a foreigner it should be fine. There are actually offshore companies that specialize in registering boats offshore to dodge high Croatian and EU taxes; people who have residence or dual citizenship can use these to get through the tax brackets.

At the end of the day, even the 6.25% sales tax and the $60/year registration fee is minute compared to what it would take to get the boat registered in Croatia and abroad.



Great point. How would we get around getting the boat inspected by USCG? If we purchase it from a private party can we do this before the boat is shipped abroad?

You do not have get a boat inspected by the US Coast Guard to purchase or export it. Documenting a 26 foot boat would allow you to wave state registration. No real advantage there IMO.

If I were you, I would be looking for a boat in Croatia to purchase, which may have to be a bit older than what you would like to be affordable.

_________________
One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy