oops here are the pics
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| Hey, it floats! https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6992 |
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| Author: | wkearney99 [ Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hey, it floats! |
So I'm trying to get my cover put on our 348. Busy schedules and bad weather have left me no time to get it set up. So last weekend I figured I'd at least move the cover from storage to the boat. It's HEAVY. Like 100bs. And when rolled it's about the size of a 2 drawer file cabinet. So I muscled that damned thing into a cart and wheeled it out to the boat. Figures it'd be low tide. REALLY low tide. I got the cover out of the cart and set it on the dock. I stepped down onto the boat and behind me I heard.... SPLASH! THE COVER FELL IN THE WATER. The weight of it must've caused it to slump over! Holy crap! That's $2k worth of canvas, now in 12' of 36F water! And it's DRIFTING AWAY! Man, does adrenaline help when you need to act FAST. I managed to hook a pole on it and got it back to the boat. I gave it a pull but the line around it SNAPPED! Insert string of frantic obscenties here. Now I have visions of my sorry ass falling into the water.... I got the ladder open and into the water... might need it... A foot down on the ladder gave me just enough leverage to YANK that thing up onto the swim platform. We're talking "mother lifting tractor off baby" feats of strength here. Turns out it's not even very wet. Not soaked at all. The totally surprising thing here was that a hundred pounds of canvas can actually FLOAT! Must be the waterproofing they use on it or something. All I know as I'm damned glad I didn't have to call a diver to go get the thing off the bottom! And of course the weather's been for shit since. I may never get it installed this season... |
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| Author: | Paul I. [ Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hey, it floats! |
Hi See how much fun you had!!!! Now you have a story to tell. I hate it when it's low tide, when I am bring down fuel for the boat too. Some times I ask my wife to down the ramp first, ahead of me. Good luck, Paul |
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| Author: | Cap'n Morgan [ Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hey, it floats! |
So your boat is and has been in the water all year without a cover ? The cover was in warm and comfy storage, but the boat was not. Seems like an oxymoron. No pun intended. Glad you recovered it sucessfully. |
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| Author: | wkearney99 [ Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hey, it floats! |
Yes, there's plenty of irony in the cover having been safely stored while the boat was outside. The cover requires a frame underneath of it. I made one from 2" PVC pipes. First there's the time it takes to remove and store the existing canvas AND bimini poles. That's about an hour. Assembling the PVC frame takes another. Then there's the fact that the cover weighs a hundred pounds. It's pretty much impossible for one person to put it on alone. Even with help it takes about an hour to get it on and draped properly. Then, once it's on the boat, I have to use the utility raft (or a dinghy) to run lines under the bottom and then go the bow and pull the cinch rope tight. Getting the raft over to the boat is its own adventure. All of this when it's cold outside. daylight is short and the boat's an hour away from home. So I try to schedule it when the weather's not miserable and when I and my helpers have time free. That hasn't happened this season, for all sorts of reasons. Right now the existing canvas is pretty much shot. The clear vinyl panels have developed a number of cracks. This isn't unexpected. That and some of the stitching to the zippers has come undone. So I'm looking at replacing several of the panels. This means I may well not bother with the cover at all this year. But at least the damned thing made it TO the boat. |
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| Author: | LouC [ Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hey, it floats! |
I know those covers are a pain, I have a custom cover for my little boat and I made a frame to keep the snow from caving it in. It's a bit of a pain to put on by yourself but the way I think of it, I've saved a bunch of money over the years by not having to get the boat shrink wrapped. On a boat your size, that would be quite a job, probably much easier with 2 people. Using the winter cover definitely makes the regular canvas last longer, I cringe when I see boats with the regular canvas covered in ice and snow all winter..... |
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| Author: | millhaven_nice_guy [ Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hey, it floats! |
Glad to hear everything is getting in place. I see many boats in our area that have minimal covers on them for the winter. Most are shrink wrapped or wrapped by the owners by tarps but some just bungee a cheap blue tarp over their tonneau or camper canvas and forget about it until Spring. Do you always store in the water? That is unheard of around here. I see the St. Lawrence Cruise boats stay in a protected harbour but they get frozen in solid! Do you use aerators? |
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| Author: | wkearney99 [ Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hey, it floats! |
The Chesapeake hasn't frozen over for quite a while (I actually drove across it on the ice back in the late 70's). In the marina they use devices to keep the water moving. They're basically a propeller attached to a watertight motor, plugged into shore power AC. They're hung from lines attached to the docks, about every fourth slip. They turn 'em on if ice skins up on the water. The prop pushes water up and keeps it moving enough to prevent freezing. This also works because the water a few feet below the surface is a little bit warmer. I've been to the marina first thing in the morning and noticed a 1/4" or so had skinned up underneath some lift slips. The ice totally cleared within about 10 minutes of activating them. The marina also has a sea wall around it so there's not a lot of risk from outside ice. But the calmer water inside the seawall tends to freeze up well before that anyway. Should it look like really serious ice is a risk I believe most storage marinas will pull as necessary. I keep it in the water since I have the slip paid for year-round, and it would cost extra to pull and store on the hard. I may have to pull it this spring as the water temp sensor seems to have gone on the fritz. It's reading 105F. It's still reading the right depth, but it's a combined sensor (an Airmar unit). I've heard folks have replaced one while in the water by being "really quick" with pulling out the old one. Pulling and storing for a few days runs about $300 and that's a lot cheaper than having something go wrong "really quick". Most of the time I store it with the top bimini canvas roof panels up and the cockpit 'tonneau' style cover. I don't usually leave the clear side panels up. But the cockpit cover cannot hold off snow, so I put the side panels up. I suppose there's some risk that the roof panels could collapse too, but the staff at the marina is great about keeping an eye out against that sort of thing. I would never leave it without some sort of cover in the winter as the weight of snow piling up in the cockpit could pose a serious sinking risk. Either from the weight outright, or risk of listing if it piled up or melted unevenly. |
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| Author: | sachem29 [ Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hey, it floats! |
Bill, At least you were able to retrieve your canvas from the icy waters, it could have been worse. When you speak of your explatives, I know that I for one have been there. When I think about the incident afterward it makes me laugh. Also I hope that you cannot drive across the Chesapeake this winter cuz if you could I don't want to think of how cold it will be up here. Here is a pic of my winter cover [img][IMG]http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z424/sachem29/Picture535-1.jpg[/img][/img] [img][IMG]http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z424/sachem29/Picture510.jpg[/img][/img] |
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| Author: | sachem29 [ Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hey, it floats! |
oops here are the pics [url] [/url][url] [/url]
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| Author: | wkearney99 [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hey, it floats! |
Nice pix. Looks like you've got even more bits of pipe than I have on mine. How are those bent ribs holding up? I'd worry about them cracking in the cold. Or did you bend them permanently to that curve? If I ever get mine assembled this year I'll take pictures of the frame. But here's some from the past: Cover 2 seasons ago:  Cockpit frame:  Bow frame:  After last year's big snow storm:  I've altered the bow frame ribs a little after that snow. I added another center-to-side rib, along with a rib-to-rib brace between them. This to keep the canvas raised enough to better slough off the snow. |
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| Author: | wkearney99 [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hey, it floats! |
sachem29 wrote: When I think about the incident afterward it makes me laugh.] Yes, I get a good chuckle out of it too. It's definitely a testament to how important it is to be able to react quickly. The crash once the adrenaline wore off was exhausting. Granted, it likely wouldn't have happened at all f I hadn't done the job alone. Someone else watching it would've avoided the problem entirely. But then there's the scheduling hassle that's kept me from getting it installed at all! Damned if you do, etc... I'm reminded of my wife's reaction one time when something else went wrong and required quick actions. She was pretty surprised just how fast a guy my size can move to get a job done. Frankly, there's a part of my brain thinking "crap, I really don't want deal with even MORE screwups in the aftermath, so let's get this done, RIGHT NOW." Sort of like, "this is going to be a LOT worse if I don't act NOW, so JUMP!" |
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| Author: | sachem29 [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hey, it floats! |
Wkearney99 wrote: Quote: Nice pix. Looks like you've got even more bits of pipe than I have on mine. How are those bent ribs holding up? I'd worry about them cracking in the cold. Or did you bend them permanently to that curve? The ribs are bent that way on purpose, they are very flexible at least when its warm out. Tonite its forcast to go down to-11F so I'm sure that everything will be brittle including my patience for this weather. The only problem with my setup is that I have to clean off the snow everytime it snows, It is a bit more work than just shrink- wrapping it, but its permanent. To be honest I use some colorful metaphores every fall when I can't find an elbow joint or other small pieces . Fortunately my wife seems to be able to find these items when I can't. Your setup seems similar and well put together. I look forward to disassembling it soon!!! |
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| Author: | wkearney99 [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hey, it floats! |
sachem29 wrote: ...every fall when I can't find an elbow joint or other small pieces. Mine uses threaded couplers, or just the slip sockets, where sections join. That way there aren't any small parts to get lost. For the sections in the cockpit it's mostly just the slip sockets, and I use some line tied around them to keep them together. The cockpit section is like a ladder frame, the lines pull the sides together and hole in the 'rungs'. In order to ease storage and transporting all pieces are kept under 8' in length. For the longer lengths that's where the threaded joints come into play. The bow 'spine' is made up of at least three of them. Here's a picture of some of the pieces:  Note the 4-way 'wye' couplers. They're used to extend the ribs out from the center spine. They use a couple of 22.5 degree elbows to turn the joint so it angles properly from the spine to the rails. Each joint has a dash marking where the pieces should line up. You can also make out a number the uprights. Those thread into the bottom of the spine and have a tee on the bottom. I rest each of them on a piece of carpet to avoid scuffing the deck. The ends where the ribs meet the rail are made up of tee fittings, where the top of the tee was cut off to make a cup-like section that straddles the rail.  I use a hunk of old carpet between it and the railing to avoid scratches. And then the tee is tied to the rail. The whole set of these fits upright in my storage locker, taking about a 1' by 3' section of space (8' tall). And usually only take two trips in a dock cart to get them to the boat. The only real problem I've had with this setup (besides free time to set it up) is the wye joints. I used only a small section of PVC inside the elbow joints. About 1-2" long. I didn't use quite enough joint cement (or cleaner perhaps) on them and they tend to separate. To guard against that causing the rib to collapse I run a line inside the ribs, from one railing to the other. This gives an added support should a joint fail. |
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| Author: | millhaven_nice_guy [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hey, it floats! |
Bill That is a fantastic setup! I like the use of the plastic piping. I made a system using 2 x 4's and ratchet straps to hold up my cover this year and I am not overly pleased with the results ! I made it in a hurry and didn't bring the front up enough and the ratchet straps don't support enough weight so I still get pooling in several areas. By tying the piece of rope through your ribs you are also stopping the bowrail from flexing outwards. I like your idea and will be stealing the concept for next years support system. |
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| Author: | wkearney99 [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hey, it floats! |
millhaven_nice_guy wrote: That is a fantastic setup! I like your idea and will be stealing the concept for next years support system. Thanks, feel free to go with a similar setup. I developed mine based on seeing what others have done via other websites. I over engineered mine by using 2" PVC. I could've gotten away with 1.5". I don't think 1" would be strong enough. I've seen some folks use metal conduit. It's smaller and can be manipulated into more complex angles. But I don't like the idea of swinging metal pipes around near the fiberglass gelcoat. My advice when you start building it is to buy lots of extra pieces and be prepared to return a lot of them. A cordless sawzall is definite tool worth having. But if you've got AC power a chop/miter saw works too. The ratcheting PVC tube cutters work too, but won't help you cut open the ends of tees for straddling the rails. A spare hunk of old carpet is very helpful. For one it'll help you avoid dripping any PVC glue or cleaner. For another you can cut off pieces of it to cushion where PVC touches anything on the boat. Just remember to put the softer pile side down toward the boat surfaces. My two goals where to be able to safely support the canvas if snow built up on it and to keep the canvas reasonably tight. Not so tight that it causes chafing, just tight enough to avoid allowing any flapping. Flapping and chafing are destructive, both to the canvas and any materials they might be rubbing against. That's what I made it using a ladder structure in the cockpit, it keeps the cover up and off of the vinyl seat at the transom. In the picture you can just barely make out that I have it upwardly supported using tees cut to straddle the transom hand rail. It's hard to know ahead of time just how many elbows and tees you're going to need. Or the threaded fittings. I had planned on using threaded fittings everywhere but couldn't. Like the ladder frame over the cockpit. The threaded fittings would've made the bottom rung (the base of it) too large (threaded fittings have a larger outside diameter than regular slip fittings). So for those I just went with un-glued slip fittings and tied a rope around it to pull them snug. But I did use threaded fitting for where the uprights hang below the center spine up on the bow. This keeps them very secure. Note that PVC fittings are a pain in the ass to deal with when they're cold. A tiny bit of teflon lube spray helps, but don't let it get everywhere. For complex angles, like where the ribs extend from the spine, 22.5 and 45 degree elbows are great. Once you find the right angles use a Sharpie pen to put tick marks on where the pieces need to line up. Including any threaded fittings. That way you'll know exactly where to glue them up or re-thread them next season. I can explain it better if anyone really wants to know. |
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