www.iFourWinns.com

Fellow FW boaters,

While plugging into Shore Power to my '04 FW 288 for the night this
past weekend at a friends boat house, the red light came on indicating
that there was a polarity issue. We ended up using the generator for
the evening to run AC, etc. with no problem.

We plug in frequently both wile the boat is in storage and visiting
out on the lake but have never seen this happen. Once we got back to
home base, I used a different power chord with the same results which
would rule out the possibility of a bad chord or power source.

Anyone have any ideas of where to begin looking? I am hoping there are
some breakers or something simple to look at rather than hauling the
boat into the service dept.

Thanks in advance,
Don
Faith Evan Too II

I have had the reverse polarity light come on a couple times at various marinas. Once it was a bad shore power cord that I borrowed to reach an outlet. The other time it was a bad power pole on the dock. Moving to a power pole on the other side (diff circuit) the problem went away.

I can't see anything in the boat being an issue, the negative is still the negative as before. Are both your breakers for the genset/shorepower choice switched in the same direction?

_________________
Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

Yes, all switches were in the correct position. I thought it may be an issue with this particular outlet although I have plugged in there for several years. The kicker though is that once I got back to my own dry storage, I had the same RED light issue even though it was a different place/ power source and I used a different shore power chord. This should rule out any polarity issues.

One thing I did not mention in the original post is that even though I get a green light on AC for the genny with full ac power once I switched over to shore power and red lighted, I had no ac power at all. Not sure what this means....

I spoke to Ray at Four Winns Corporate Service today and he thinks that the galvanic isolator mayt be bad for what-ever reason. It is a component that is behind the main ac/dc power distribution panel. I have had it off before but not sure if I have enough room to change out myself. He also thinks that it should be under warranty. Ring any bells?

Thanks,
Don

Yes it does. If you look at al the paper you got with your boat there is a pamplet on the isolator. You can actually from their directions fabricate a led panel to monitor the isolator. Why it's an option is beyond me. It's the first product I've seen that gives you that kind of info.

Since ther are no lights to monitor, you have a tendency to forget the unit is back there.

_________________
Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

By the way, here are some links to the Guest galvanic isolator info.

Galvanic Isolators [url]Galvanic Isolators [url]http://kroescorp.com/Vendors/Actuant/Guest/Isolators.htm#Galvanic_Isolators[/url]

http://www.fourwinns.net/partbook/2004/pa/basemodel.php?dh=288V-D04

I am trying to get enough doc to pin point and trouble shoot. Looks like a $230 part plus labor but I really don't want to have to trailer to and from the dealer ship whether it is under warranty or not (3 year warranty and boat was register in Oct. 04). It is either that this part is faulty or it failed because something bigger is lurking and this is just the beginning....


On another note and since we own the same model of boat, thanks for the tip for the Gel-Koat site. I spent the week-end end filling some major gouges in the swim platform as the result of a cross wind when pulling into the slip over Memorial day weekend. As you probably have experienced,it is VERY challenging to mix enough pigment into the filler to get a perfect match with the factory gel-koat. Do you know the color match for the "white" on the 04 288 for an order? They have two selections for white. If not, looks like I can provide a hull id and they should match...

Don

Yes it should be under warranty for 3 yrs with a $25 deductable.

_________________
Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

Here is an explanation of how to test your galvanic isolator:
Galvanic Isolator test procedure.


Galvanic isolators are a bit difficult to test. New standards are being developed that will specify self testing isolators, but there are some technical difficulties that remain to be overcome and in the meantime they have to be tested by hand. There are a number of methods that can be used, the one that follows is one that I found most useful.

Unplug the boat from shore power before starting the test.
Disconnect one lead of the isolator so that you are testing it only. Get a digital multimeter set to the diode test function. Put one lead on one side of the isolator and the other lead on the other side.

As the capacitor starts to conduct current the reading should rise to approximately 0.9 volts. Remove the test leads, short the two wires of the isolator together to discharge the capacitor and repeat the test with the test leads reversed. You should get the same answer.

Interpreting the readings:

* If the reading is instantly 0.9 volts then the capacitor is defective or there is no capacitor.
* If a voltage of 0.45 volts is observed one of the diodes is shorted.
* If there is a reading of 0 volts then both diodes could be shorted.
* If there is a reading in excess of 0.9 volts then one or both diodes are open (not conducting) in which case you should stop the test before the capacitor reaches 2.0 volts or you will damage it.

And, the hull ID is all you need to get the match to your gel coat color.

_________________
One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

I have no specific information as to the 288, so my info should be treaded as generic.

Typically the red shorepower light comes on if the "neutral" side of the boat is wired to the "hot" side of the shorepower pedestal - which is reverse polarity.

Boats are a bit different than houses. In a typical home, the neutral and ground side are connected together.

In a boat, they are separate.

This is actually done for safety.

This is one reason that you have a breaker on both the "hot" and "neutral" leads on the main breaker panel.

However, the neutral AND ground connections are tied together on the shorepower pedestal, so when you connect the boat to shorepower, the neutral and ground connections "at the boat" then become tied together by proxy.

If this were not done this way, and the neutral and ground connections were tied together at the boat, then a condition could exist whereby a direct short could occur should the shorepower pedestal be mis-wired, which is the other reason for the main breaker on the neutral side as well as the hot side.

Since the galvanic isolator is on the ground side of the boat, I cannot see how a bad isolator would make the red light come on; unless the red light is dual purpose; i.e. shows a mis-wired condition AND a bad isolator.

One added complexity you have is a genset. This might result in having an isolation transformer or other equipment on board.

The ABYC has mandated somewhere in 2000 or 2001 or so, that all new galvanic isolators have a circuit to tell when they are bad, so maybe your red light indicates this? Otherwise, I am not sure a lot of manufacturers have adopted this ABYC requirement, since it is optional.

So the first question, has anyone added any wiring to the boat; dealer or owner? If so, make sure they have not connected the ground and neutral wires together anywhere.

If you think it is the isolator you can test it; but you need an ohmmeter that puts out more than 1.5VDC in the ohms scale. The way ohmmeters work is that they inject a voltage to the circuit, and then make a calculation from the result. Often the voltage used is from a 1.5VDC 'AA' cell, which actually over time will be less voltage.

By the way Cap'n; some isolators have a capacitor and some do not. I do believe that our V268s have a capacitor, so your test procedure would work for those.

You also need to absolutely be sure that your shorepower pedestal is wired correctly. This will rule out for sure whether or not you have a problem.


You can make an adapter (or buy one) for both the pedestal and boat ends of the shorepower cable.

If you want to make one, use this diagram below:





WARNING: I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY RESULT IF YOU DECIDE TO MAKE YOUR OWN.

If you are not sure what to do, you can buy these:

Marinco 81A:



Marinco 83A:



Of course, these are expensive. When I made mine, I went to Home Depot and bought the parts for about half the cost. The 30 amp connectors are NEMA L5-30P and L5-30R; if I recall, P for Plug, and R for receptacle.

I use the one with the male 15A connector to hook the boat up each spring when I do the spring commissioning so that I can charge the batteries from a 15A outlet.

I use the other one so that I can plug accessories in at the shorepower pedestal (such as my George Foreman electric grille) while at the dock. It is also useful for "testing" a shorepower pedestal at a transient dock when used in conjunction with one of those inexpensive circuit polarity testers:



Of course, this little tester does nothing the red light in your electrical panel doesn't. Except when you test the pedestal with it, it rules out everything but the pedestal.

If you use shorepower, these items should be in your toolbox.

So to close, in my view, you need to make sure where the problem isn't, so buy or make an adapter cable, then test the polarity of your shorepower pedestal. Only then will you know if the problem is with your boat or with the pedestal itself.

_________________
1999 Vista 268

The tester is great. I've had the one you showed for several years. I also found two circuits in my house that were wired backwards. I got mine at Home Depot.