www.iFourWinns.com

I hate to continually ask questions but most of this is new to me and I am one to want to learn all I can. I've read all my documentation (quite a substantial pile) backwards and forwards no less than five times now.

One thing I do not understand is why the manual tells me I need to close the sea cock for the marine head toilet water after each use. Who in thier right mind is going to lift the engine hatch each time someone needs to use the head and flush?

From what I can see in the FW Parts Catalog they installed the system the right way with a vented loop and it looks like it's installed high in the starboard side of the hull. So why would I need to close the sea cock after use of the toilet? Is water going to flood the cabin if I leave it open so the toilet is useable? Do I need to set the selector to "Dry Bowl" to avoid sea water entering the bowl?

It has me confused for sure, and I am positive that those on the forums that know these boats inside and out, can put my mind at ease about the proper use of the head.

Thanks so much!

Brett

I don't ever close my seacock. I havn't had any problems. The only thing I noticed is that when underway with the seacock open it tends to suck the water out of the lines and I need to reprime the head when I use it. No biggy though.

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"Where Da Go"
2002 248 Vista
Lafayette, IN
http://blueoceanlife.worldventures.biz

Funny, I read that too as I was perusing my phone book, er, manual and wondered who actually does that. My dealer said nothing about it.

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SOLD! 2006 30th Anniversary Vista 278
"Conch'd Out!"

http://vista278.com

I leave mine closed all the time. I use the shower head for water when done Doin business. I would much rather use fresh water to flush than sea water. We only use the head for liquid waste and only empty every couple of weeks.

Brett

Are you refering to the seacock for the OB discharge or the one for the toilet flush water intake. They may be talking about the OB discharge and only opening it when you are empting the tank.

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Inboard, outboard, onboard never bored
KUT 'N LOOSE
'99 258 VISTA

If it's a raw water toilet then you close the seacock to keep the boat from sinking should water get forced into it while underway. The raw water toilets often end up stinking pretty bad, usually due to the water sitting stagnant in the line. Our 348 has a vacuflush that uses fresh water and dumps to a black water tank. Having used both styles I'd never, EVER go back to a manual one, let alone one that used raw water.

And did you ever use Campo-Chem from Thetford in your blackwater tank? Did you use any odor control product at all? I have Campo-Chem for my tank and it takes care of odor problems (using fresh water) I've not tried raw water but considering I boat on fresh water it's unlikely that there would be any appreciable odor from using raw for the flush. The smell in a raw water flush on salt water comes from decaying Krill that are siphoned in when you flush.

And I wouldn't use raw water if I was in salt either.

I still do not understand how the boat could become flooded if you leave the raw water inlet open even under way.

Tekker,

I am reffering to the raw water inlet for the toilet not the over board discharge.

The raw water line should have it's own separate seacock, in addition to the lever on the toilet itself. It's one more hole in the boat through which water can come in. Plenty of folks have forgotten to leave the handle in the correct position and have had it overflow, some enough to sink the boat. You're basically trusting the flotation of the whole boat to the small seal in the pump handle, no thanks. If you're not using it, or it's going to sit in the water unattended you'd do well to shut off the seacock too.

WKearney,

I do not disagree that if the boat is sitting unatended like at a slip that the raw water seacock should be closed. But my question is, if I am out using the boat, staying on it for the weekend and the boat will never be out of my sight and I, in all likelyhood won't even leave the boat at all. Should I have to worry about the raw seacock under those circumstances or can I just leave it open and close it before I haul the boat out? That's the part I want to be clear on.

What about the raw water intake for the AC? Do you close it every time the AC shuts down? My seacocks for the head and the AC are opened all season. I open and close them several times a month just to excersize them.

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Inboard, outboard, onboard never bored
KUT 'N LOOSE
'99 258 VISTA

Teker,

That was kind of what I was getting at. If it's ok to keep the raw water sea cock for the AC open, why should the head be any different? neither of them should siphon, knowing how well FW laid out the plumbing and wiring on the boat I am sure they have loops in all sea cock lines.

Uh, think about it.... the AC system is a closed loop, a raw water toilet has the OPEN BOWL. While there's the risk of leaking or hose failure with any through-hull connection, the toilet is the only one that has a direct path to allow water into the interior of the boat.

Granted, it's not "supposed to" but if you leave the raw water switch on the pump in the wrong position you greatly add to the risk of sinking. Now, the risk is apparently greater in sailing vessels since they tend to heel over to a much greater degree. This lets water slosh out of the bowl or the siphon effect to pull water from the through hull. Unnoticed small leaks probably sink more boats that anything else.

I wouldn't want to be there when the insurance adjuster notices that switch position after they've raised the sunken boat...

This thread frightens me a bit! Are we saying with the vacu-flush head you don't need to bother with seacock? Or, everytime you leave the boat for a period of time you should close all of them?

My dealer made no mention of any of the seacocks during the sea trial. If they have this much potential for disaster, one would hope the topic would have been brought up.

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SOLD! 2006 30th Anniversary Vista 278
"Conch'd Out!"

http://vista278.com

The vacu-flush units generally use fresh water, not raw water. At least the one on my 348 does. Thus it has no seacock to worry about.

You might need to concern yourself with the inaccurate tank monitors and take care not to let the black water tank get overfillled. But not a raw water seacock. We've had the tank monitor fixed twice and it's still not right. If you let the black water tank get overfilled and it leaks up into the in-line filter on the vent hose you risk damaging the tank during pump out. When pumping out it pulls air back in through that vent line. If the paper element in the filter got wet (from the tank being overfilled) then it wouldn't be able to pull enough fresh air. The pressure from the vacuum would then start to collapse the tank. This is generally a "bad thing" since the plastic, one deformed, can either crack or fail to re-expand properly.

Then there's the whole issue of waste hoses going bad after several years and starting to stink...

As for the other seacocks, you do want to be familiar with where they're located and exercise them. If you're not going to be using the boat for a while it's never a bad idea to carefully close them. If you leave them open and the hose attached to them fails (or it's clamp) then the amount of water rushing in may well be more than your bilge pump(s) can effectively remove.

As an aside, this is why it's nice to have a resettable counter installed to track how many times your bilge pump kicked on automatically. You want to know if it had to start running so you can start checking to see why. Imagine not knowing the you've had a slight leak (getting bigger) and the pump's been running on/off constantly. The pump would eventually wear out (or have it's float level get stuck from gunk) and stop working. Your only warning would've been to see the water being pumped out (or have a watchful slipmate nearby complaining about the noise) or the residue in the bilge. A counter would show just how many times it had to run. I'm adding one this summer.

There are generally seacocks for each engine, the generator and the AC (along with another for the raw water toilet if you've got one). It's a VERY GOOD IDEA to locate these on your boat and make sure they operate smoothly. Do you need to close them all the time? That's up to you.

Unless you're careless with them it's not like closing them is a bad idea. Just remember to re-open them when you need to use the equipment that's attached.

So, your dealer didn't even show you the seacocks? That's just exceptionally bad form. I'm guessing they didn't show you the sea strainers either, right? Both are very important to the safe operation of your boat. The strainers need to be kept clean so that the engines can get the proper amount of water to stay cool. If the strainers get blocked the engines won't get enough water and can overheat. Make sure they're clean. They're generally glass so you can visually inspect them. And cleaning them is a simple matter of closing the seacock that feeds them, unscrewing the lid and pulling out the basket for cleaning. Find yours, trace the hoses to the seacocks and see that everything clean and in working order

But these are all 'regular' issues with all boats, so they're no more worrisome than any of your other regular maintenance issues.

Having just returned from a 9 day Cruise on the Crown Princess to the Carribean (Very Nice, I might add!!!) I am just trying to get caught up on the messages I missed.

I have to say I agree with both wkearney99 and 248Vista that you really do not want to flush with raw water, especially in saltwater, and like 248Vista, I also use the shower head to flush the head with fresh water on my manual pump setup. (Also wishing I had gone for the VacuFlush option..OhWell nest time).

I have never had a problem leaving the seacock open, but if you do not plan to use the raw water flush, then closing the seacock definitely makes sense.

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'04 FW 268Vista "Andiamo"