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Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
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Author:  txvista [ Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
Not sure what the right terminology is, but does anyone have a drainage hole that connects your forward bilge with your engine compartment bilge? I have both forward and aft bilge pumps, and not what the reason behind the hole is. My problem is when I get water in my engine compartment from rain, washing the boat, and most recently a leak in my water pump, the water makes its way under my cabin. That water has a difficult time making its way back aft into engine compartment, and my cabin starts smelling when we are 100 degree plus. I've been told that newer boats do not have this, actually not allowed to be built this way.

Other than the odor, my main concern is fumes can make there way up this opening. I'm just wondering if this was something common, why is it that way when I have a forward bilge pump. I'm going to be sealing it in the next couple of weeks, but want to make sure I'm not messing with any design issues.
Author:  Backdraft [ Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
I noticed this on my 268 as well. Water will move forward from the aft bilge to the forward bilge and not get out, eventually creating nasty odor when it's hot out. Rainwater is the primary culprit, but I also think I too may have a raw water pump that's due for replacement

Please let us know if isolating the bilge compartments help!
Author:  Decision [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
"I'm not messing with any design issues" ---- I as well would want to be carefull when considering sealing off the the engine to forward bilge areas.

One reason off the top of my head why they are not sealed would be if you had a significant water coming into your engine compartment area then the forward bilge plus the engine bilge would help remove the water. Also if a water leak developed with water entering the forward bilge than the engine bilge would help remove water. Maybe other boats do seal it off and have bigger bilge pumps or additional bilge pumps to help out?

I have noticed that water in the engine compartment does flow forward into the forward bilge on our 328. I wish this was not the case, but it always seems if you remove the inspection plate beside the stairs in the galley that the water is higher there than at the back of the engine bilge.

My wife and I make a point on turning both engine and forward bilges on at the same time while getting on on plane each weekend we are out boating to remove as much bilge water as we can. This helps do not have bilge water hanging around to long before we get rid of it.

Mike.
Author:  jnizi [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
Standing water in the engine and forward bilges seem to be an issue with how the boat is designed. As it was explained to me, each area is supposed to be isolated compartment which is true for the most part. As Decision has correctly stated, the low point when the boat is at rest is the forward bilge area and it you have loose caulk or other flaws, you find water in the forward bilge that did work its way from the back. We did. The engine and forward compartments area are actually above the hull and water migrates front to back via the stringers. Per the design, there is no way to stop this migration. At the transom, we have a hole in the engine liner (This is at the drain plug) which allows water to get between the liner and hull. No way around that.

We have learned to live with this and usually have only a small amount of water trapped. It did drive me crazy for a while and I finally added a small pump and a thru hull to siphon the water out all the way down to the hull. After a heavy rain or if we washed down the engine bilge, the rear bilge pump would only extract so much and the remainder would find its way to the forward area. I have a small (3/4") hole in my forward liner that I utilized to suck the water from the lowest point in the boat. This helped reduce the stagnant water.

Our mechanic has told me on numerous occasions that this type of small water migration is normal.
Author:  ric [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
After a good rain I used to ride around just before on plane, with the most bow rise possible (even trimming the drive up to get more) so that all the water can be sucked up from the bilge pump.
Author:  txvista [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
I ride around just before plane also, but not all the water from forward bilge is emptied. Other than water, it gives a pathway or fumes also?
Author:  Technologic80 [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
Those are limber holes.

Be careful - Four Winns doesnt always seal them with epoxy. Once water gets through the limber holes; and it most certainly will, the stringers wick up the water. After a while, you've got "wet" stringers.

After I had a 98 Vista 258 surveyed that looked brand new but had 90% relative moisture in the stringers and saw that FW didnt seal the limber holes at all, you could put your finger and pull out wet, rotted shredded wood :(

Anyway, yeah - dont block those holes. Also make sure they are sealed.
Author:  txvista [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
Why not block the limber holes? I have forward bilge pump.
Author:  taz42169 [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
The 248 has the same issue. I keep a small shop vac in my dock box and every few weeks, open my shower sump compartment and suck out the water. Rain and washing are my issues. I know it isn't a fix, but it sure beats rotting wood, mold build up and a foul smell!
Author:  weather [ Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
I've always got about 3/4" of water in my front and rear bilge. The board that the pumps are mounted on prevent them from pulling more water out. I must have pretty good water migration from front to back, when on plane I run the rear bilge pump only and that makes it pretty dry. Can't say I've every seen the bilge completely dry.
Author:  txvista [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
weather wrote:
I've always got about 3/4" of water in my front and rear bilge. The board that the pumps are mounted on prevent them from pulling more water out. I must have pretty good water migration from front to back, when on plane I run the rear bilge pump only and that makes it pretty dry. Can't say I've every seen the bilge completely dry.


I don't have good water migration at all. Water seeps into the compartment where the black water holding tank is, and there are no limber holes. It leaks through the hole where hoses that connect to to tank goes through bulkhead. No limber holes. So water goes in there and can't get out.

Still, what are the reasons why I shouldn't seal up the limber holes since I have a forward bilge pump?
Author:  Cap'n Morgan [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
txvista wrote:
weather wrote:
Still, what are the reasons why I shouldn't seal up the limber holes since I have a forward bilge pump?


If your forward bilge pump completly drains ALL the water, then you have no issue. Leave as is. The limber holes, as has been said, lets water drain to the low spots for the bilge pump to pick up. Known issues on many FW models :
1: Limber holes are not sealed peoperly and will leak water into the stringers.
2: Bilge pumps front and aft will remove MOST of the water, but not all of it.

To fix, you can do as has already been said, drain the area that the bilge pump will not pick up with portable pump, wet vac, or super soaker (which I used in our 268).
Also, to help prevent premature stringer rot, IF your limber holes are not sealed well. Add a piece of PVC pipe to the holes, after making sure all deteroriated stringer material has been removed (w/dremel tool) and use West System epoxy on the stringer and PVC pipe to seal permanently and to prevent any further water ingestion to the stringers. This will also retain the original function of the limber holes, which I would want to have functioning as designed.
Author:  ric [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
The limber holes on my H180 were PVC pipe lined. I guess they got something right once and a while?
Author:  txvista [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
Cap'n Morgan wrote:
txvista wrote:
weather wrote:
Still, what are the reasons why I shouldn't seal up the limber holes since I have a forward bilge pump?


If your forward bilge pump completly drains ALL the water, then you have no issue. Leave as is. The limber holes, as has been said, lets water drain to the low spots for the bilge pump to pick up. Known issues on many FW models :
1: Limber holes are not sealed peoperly and will leak water into the stringers.
2: Bilge pumps front and aft will remove MOST of the water, but not all of it.

To fix, you can do as has already been said, drain the area that the bilge pump will not pick up with portable pump, wet vac, or super soaker (which I used in our 268).
Also, to help prevent premature stringer rot, IF your limber holes are not sealed well. Add a piece of PVC pipe to the holes, after making sure all deteroriated stringer material has been removed (w/dremel tool) and use West System epoxy on the stringer and PVC pipe to seal permanently and to prevent any further water ingestion to the stringers. This will also retain the original function of the limber holes, which I would want to have functioning as designed.



Thanks Cap'n. I will probably seal the limber holes properly and check for rot. The problem is water makes it way to the bow of the boat, but not back to the forward bilge pump. So they are not working effectively. New boats have both aft bilge and forward bilge completely sealed off for preventing fumes entering cabin.
Author:  txvista [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Drain holes between forward and engine bilge compartment
If I do isolate the two compartments, I would add a backup bilge pump in each compartment.
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