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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:49 am
Posts: 401
Location: Eastern Canada
Introducing Myself; I just recieved my order confirmation for a new 08 210 (so stoked) and was hoping for some advice for a power prop at sea level.
My order specifically is a 210 with the 5.7Gi/SX 300HP 1.51:1.
I noticed that on the order the stock prop is 14 3/4 x 19 (PROP, 14-3/4 X 19 RH SXSS ). I thought the 210s came with a 21 (so the FWs spec sheets for 07 say with the 280hp) so I was surprised by this.
I also noticed that it appears the gear ratio in the SX is 1.51 to 1 as the above was copied from the order conf.
Bottom line for me is that I want to match the gear ratio with a good cruise/speed prop and a good power prop for some hard pulling with passengers. Any one notice thier combination close to sea-level and have any remarks for the same?
Oh, and one more thing - I was leaning towardes Volvo Penta hence the 5.7GI but I was wondering if the MerCruiser MX 6.2/Bravo I DTS 320hp is of the Mercury Horizon breed (I.E. is it close loop cooled) or the plain MPI? I don't feel the 20hp bump is worth the cost - Volvo or Merc but the option of putting in SmartTow and Closed Loop Cooling might get me there. At the risk of frustrating my dealer (who by the way I have checked them all - I highly reccommend him for North Eastern quarter of US & Canada - they are in NH) I could probably still change my power if it was worth it.

Thanks Much for Your Time Gents.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:12 pm 
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All Night Long
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:03 am
Posts: 1899
Location: Lake Washington, Seattle, WA
Blessed -- Welcome to the forums and congrats on your purchas! Besides the engine, how else did you configure your boat? colors/options?

As for your prop... You can always jump to a 21 pitch prop for a little more top end - but I really would recommend trying the boat out with the one it comes with to see how it fits with your RPM range. I would guess the 19 degree prop with an engine on the boat your size will be PLENTY powerful to pull up even the largest skiier. If you want a speed prop - check out some options after you get your boat (in my opinion).

Fresh Water cooling is the same as closed loop - right? If so, your dealer can add that on to the GI package. If you boat in saltwater - I would definitely recommend it!

I think you got the right engine package (hp wise) with the boat... it should fly!

Do you have a build date?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:28 pm 
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230 Mike
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Location: Kansas City, Table Rock Lake
Welcome. Do you have a top speed in mind that you're trying to get to, and are you sure it won't already do it?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:34 pm 
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Location: Eastern Canada
CougarCruiser, thanks. I was agonizing over the SS and the H210 because I was a little concerned with it demanding attention so I went with an H210 equipped the same as a loaded SS.
I think I passed on the table and the stereo upgrade thats pretty much it.
The only issue with waiting to see is that I am traveling a fair distance to make the purchase and since the price is amongst a very few of the best, I wanted to get all my goodies while I was in the area.
Damn nice rig, I just saw your boat link. Mine should look very much like yours (except much smaller).
I was just hoping someone had been down this road and could save me making an error - if such a thing is possible with these Horizons :)
Seems the standard gear ratios and props changed with the HP on the 08s so the guidance offered by others for similar requests had me a little confused and since my home is a little remote I would like to adjust for speed or torque without waiting for weeks for a prop to come in (plus be more expensive).
Fresh Water / Closed Loop, yeah same same as far as I know. Was just wondering if anyone had the SS with the 6.2 Merc and knew if it was the closed loop or raw water variety that FW was including.

Oh, appreciate your comments by the way.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:38 pm 
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Villiage Idiot

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:28 pm
Posts: 1405
Location: Kansas City
Oh baby, how many times have I posted this link....

http://www.go-fast.com/Prop_Slip_Calculator.htm

Excellent.... another SS owner!
I also have a 210SS, with the 6.2 MPI and open cooling for fresh water apps. I have the 1.61:1 B1, and it came with a 19" SS prop. Assuming that's the same prop I test drove the boat with, my top end was 59 mph at 5200 rpm WOT. I had a 21 on my previous boat, but that only turned about 4800 rpm at 48 mph. I tend to see the 19 more often than any other pitch when I look around these days. Remember, you're only going to pick up about 4 mph at the most by re-proping it anyhow. Just try out the one they gave you.... if you want a few more mph, than change 1 or 2 inches. No more than that. A rule of thumb, each inch in pitch coorellates to about 200 rpm. iBoats.com has really good prices on SS props in the 19, 20 (4 blade) and 21" ranges.

As far as the Merc vs Volvo argument... we have a whole heated thread for that, and I won't touch it here.

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Black '07 H210SS
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Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:24 pm 
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Shark

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 104
Location: MASS
Hi everybody. I have been reading chats on this forum for several months now but finally registered today.

I bought a 2008 h180 in December with the 3.0 volve. I am already beginning to debate if i should have gone bigger but that is beside the point. I am going to be using it mostly in saltwater on Cape Cod but maybe a pond or two. Growing up I had a Bayliner 175 with an outboard force engine that we would flush with a hose from time to time. Now that I have an i/o do i need to do anything else to clean out the system. I probably wont have the opportunity to flush the system after every use. Is that a problem? The quote below prompted this question. Does the 180 have this "GI package" ? thank you


"Fresh Water cooling is the same as closed loop - right? If so, your dealer can add that on to the GI package. If you boat in saltwater - I would definitely recommend it!"

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:28 pm
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Location: Kansas City
Welcome Gomes,
Even in fresh water, I still flush my system after nearly every outing to keep silt from building up and keeping my T-stat free. In salt water, I always did that, and hose down anything that could corrode... the drive, Hyd lines, even the trailer wheels and brake actuators if your concerned. No use letting corrosion accumulate where it could cause harm.

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"Debt-Charged"
Black '07 H210SS
6.2L Bravo One turning a 21P HIFive
Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
Missouri River; Kansas City, Mo.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:45 pm 
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GIDDY UP

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:08 pm
Posts: 856
Location: Tulsa, OK
See if a newbie can clear a couple of things up. Closed loop cooling is not the same as fresh water cooling. Closed means it's like your car, the engine only tastes the antifreeze mix & not lake/ocean water. The difference from your car is the heat exchanger. The boat is water to water (lake water flows through the "radiator") vs. your car has air flowing through the radiator.

Def. take your boat out for a spin before fretting over prop changes. As mentioned earlier.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:18 pm 
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life to the full

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:13 pm
Posts: 699
Location: Adelaide South Australia
Welcome Gomes and blessed
Don't forget the photos they tell a 1000 words
Have fun
Ardy
South Australia

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:36 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:49 am
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Location: Eastern Canada
Hey all, the input is appreciated. Was out for the weekend otherwise I would have replied earlier. This seems to be a very friendly & helpful board - I used to belong to a photography site that seemed to be more of critisism, insults and brand flaming wars so this is a nice change.

CougarCruiser - (is the hint in the name :wink: ?) Thanks for the welcome. First I agonizined over which color SS I should get, but in my search for my ideal boat really liked the subtle look of the ChrisCraft Lancers, Regals and Cobalt 220s as well. I was on the ledge for signing on a Black - then Orange - then Red SS but hit backspace and finally settled on the H210 equipped as an SS but in black with a single red accent stripe. 5.7GI/SX, then loaded it (I think I passed on the table and stereo) with all the goodies. I will add an amp and upgrade the speakers later if I need more (doubt it, I don't like to draw too much attention).
As far as the prop pitch, I understand that it is wise to keep a spare. I come the the jet-drive club and so am happily acquainted with the neck-snap holeshot and 60 mph top speed. However, no directional control at low speed and weak watersports conditions. I needed bigger for more people and comfort. Anyway, almost doubling my weight, I still wanted to come as close as possible in the holeshot for pulling multiple tubes / skiers / biggie wakeboarders etc with several people aboard. I still want to come close to 60 with several people on board as well. Just checking the boards seems that a number of people had a torque prop and a cruise prop doubling as thier spare. Thats where I got the idea since I can get one cheaper when I pick up the boat. Its just that the std. prop for the 210s changed from 07 where they used to be 21 and the spare power prop people had was a 19. Now in 08 the HP is up to 300 the gear ratio has changed to 1.51 to 1 and the std prop is 19. So that confused the issue for me, I was going to buy the 19 for a spare (watersport) prop and have the std 21 for normal/cruise. Now I am wondering if I should drop to 18 for my watersport and have the 19 as my normal/cruise prop since I would like to have a spare anyway.
Closed loop is antifreeze in the block and part of the exhaust with a heat exchanger or rad of sorts; I am not sure if fresh water applies to this system or rather is another way of saying raw water cooling where the lake/ocean is circulated through your engine and out the exhaust. It seems to me closed loop is preferable - no draining headaches or silt blockage headaches.
No build date yet :cry: but I got the factory build conf on Friday. No hurry for me I am knee deep in snow for the moment :roll: .

230 Mike - Thanks for another welcome. No, I'm not sure. My dealer and consenses around here seem to be lots of power and high 50's in speed which I am confident reflects the actuals of the boat as equipped. However as with the changes I mentioned to CougarCruiser I am wondering which way to lean with the 2008. I guess I am asking if anyone has got an 08 on the water in the warmer states and had an Idea which pitch should be my spare so I could maximize both my watersport and cruising activities.

Walt - Thanks so much for the prop calc link. I had stumbled across it before but for the life of me couldnt find it again. We all know that frustration I'm sure. Some good Rules of Thumb, I hadnt heard those yet, thanks. Also thanks for the insight on the 6.2 setup. I was unsure since FW doesnt clarify if its the closed loop 6.2 or the raw water version. I will stick the the Volvo - a little better service options where I am. I dont get into the brand wars either. They are both great or they would't both be offered. Pros and Cons they both have I'm sure - I have witnessed that bickering in the Canon vs. Nikon camps also - nothing to gain.

Gomes - Nice for me to come into this forum new with another new member. I was climbing over the 180s at our boat show - nice rig. I have a number of friends with older heavier boats in that length and the 2.4s or similar in them. They move along just fine. I would guess the 3.0 should be real nice. I currently have a closed loop boat mentioned above and run in slightly brackish to fresh water. I flush (the exhaust), clean and garage it with every run. In salt, I would definatly make it a point to get her sprayed off and flushed and watch the annodes real close. Trailer too. But then I am a little obsessive about keeping my kit in order.

Brent87LT1 - Thats the way I understood the cooling as well. Mine has a big black plate on the bottom of the drive pump outside the hull as an exchanger. I quite like the closed loop - it sounds like the I/O setup can be risky if not drained properly. Plus no silty plugged blocks. Oh, well my cracked, plugged block will be blasting up the lake with 3 times as many people on board this year :D . I might get to test drive mine on delivery but the weather will determine that depending on the delivery date. That will make it easier to decide on my spare I hope.
That is an impressive picture of yours. Yellow. Hmm, if you had read above do you think my dealer will hang up if I ask him to change again? I think I have seen other shots you made elsewhere on this site, yes? They always have perfect exposure & color balance - nice composition. Is the viginating a wide aperature or added in PS?

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2007 GMC Sierra 2500 Crew
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 12:31 pm
Posts: 2108
Location: Chester, UK
Welcome.

I am surprised no-one seems to have mentioned specifying the DP drive rather than the SX; it's supposed to be much better for holeshot, due to the extra "grip" plus it has stainless props as standard. Or the Ocean series drive, since you will be boating in salt water.

I boat in saltwater, I bought a "left over " 2004 boat in 2005, so I didn't have the option of the ocean drive or the factory fitted closed cooling . I have the VP aftermarket closed cooling fitted; if you are considering closed cooling, I'd recommend the factory fit one. The one I have works fine, but the heat exchanger it mounted horizontally at the top/ front of the engine. It makes access to the raw water pump dfficult without getting into the engine compartment. The factory fit one has the heat exchanger mounted low down on the starboard side so access would be a lot easier. The VP closed cooling only covers the engine/ block/ head/ inlet manifold; the exhaust manifolds and risers are still raw ( salt) water cooled.
there is an engine flush port as standard. I have also fitted the neutrasalt system to try to make these cast iron items last.

Graham


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:35 pm 
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Location: Eastern Canada
GrahamR - Thank, thats some good insight re the closed loop cooling. I have to check into it. Unfortunatly, the DP is not an option for the 210 with the 5.7. I queried the factory regarding the possibility of equipping with a 6.2 DP arrangement and thier response was that the power combinations offered were due to USCG approval - the larger / more powerfull combinations are not. My dealer advised me against stepping up to the 320 HO combinations suggesting that they werent enough of an improvement to warrant the cost. I have been told the 300hp 5.7gi/sx or 300hp 350/Bravo 1 is the ideal power/value for the 210 - there is not enought to be gained stepping up. The cost of the DP props scares the hell out of me anyway.
Probably a good thing, I would probably have them stuff a 375 8.1GI/DP in mine if I could talk them into it! :twisted:
Imagine the surprise when I cracked open my plain jane looking black stripe sleeper! :shock:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:58 pm 
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Location: Kansas City, MO
I have nothing profound to say, just wanted to welcome the new folks to the site. I was in your shoes this time last year, it will be fun for me to watch others go through the next few months of excitement.

My only other additional comment is that you should keep in mind that if you are jumping in on a thread, then stick to that topic. gomes had a great question, but that really should be its own thread somewhere else on this board. The good info that followed his questions could be missed by others who could use it but aren't reading the Horizon posts. I, for one, don't read any of the posts for the other FW models. Just a suggestion and, again, welcome.

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2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:32 pm 
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re DP and USCG approval/ recommendations; does t still apply to Canada? I used to have a '99 225 Sundowner with a 5.7 GSi/ DP ( 280 HP), a really nice combinarion with a top speed of about 56 mph ( GPS).

Graham


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:23 pm 
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Uhh, I really don't know. I think it is the USCG approval that allows us to import from the US. Same with most vehicles - if US DOT approves it is often good enough for Canadian DOT. There are exceptions of course but not many. Mostly, we find roadblocks preventing us from buying brand new cars, but I don't want to get started on that conspiricy. I am already staring to shake - could have saved like 12k on my truck :evil: grrrrrrrrr.
Cool an older 225 with 280hp and you were content. That would be a little longer and heavier than what I am getting. I think Genmar Group only started the new hull forming process in the last few years making them lighter again so that 225 would have been a fair amount heavier than mine too. I should be content with my setup too then.
I would thnk there is somethng to the HP/Drive/Hull Length claim though. If you check comparable lengths for other manufacturers the power setups they offer are also the same.

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