www.iFourWinns.com

I checked both the fill line and vent line yesterday as they both tie back into the fuel filler neck so both got pressure and leak tested. How often should those hoses be replaced?

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Our Boating Blog: http://ben-dana.blogspot.com/

2005 268 Vista "Sea Pickle II"
1979 AMF Alcort Puffer
Previous:
2003 FW190 Horizon
1973 Startcraft 18ft "Sea Pickle"

http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moel ... nk_afp.pdf

According to Moeller Marine, the maximum pressure you should use is 3 psi...
Did it hold pressure at 20 psi?
Also keep in mind even if you pressurized the tank, the anti siphon valve will keep the line that goes from the tank to the fuel pump from getting pressurized. It would therefore be possible for this line to leak or seep fuel and it might not show up that way.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Lou brings up a valid point.... Multiply 20 psi by 144 and that's how much pressure you introduced per square foot. We test new sewer lines with 4 psi of air. The odd time the plug lets go it is rather scary if you happen to be standing in the man hole with it.

You have determined that your fill and vent lines hold pressure. Have you confirmed your vent is letting pressure out.

I can see a fuel line needing replacement in time, but would be surprised if a fill or vent kind would degrade this quickly as they are not always exposed to fuel. If your gear clamps are tight I would be surprised to see a leak there.

When you noticed the smell, what was the temp like... A seal could be good when warm but leak when cool... Just a thought.

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2004 - 288 Vista
Twin - 5.0 Volvo Penta GXi DP

Wow I had no idea the test psi would be that low. We started out at 5psi and slowly increased up to 20psi only because I was so convinced the sending unit was leaking and kept waiting for leak bubbles to appear that never happened. I was even banging on the tank trying to simulate the pounding action of waves. I guess in hindsight 20psi vs. 3 psi was extreme so I'm glad nothing bad happened but it does make me feel like I REALLY don't have a tank leak. Even under 20psi neither of us smelled any gas fumes at all.

The vent tube from what I've seen goes directly to the filler neck about 4 inches form the cap seal. I do not see an anti siphon valve....does a 268 have one? Is this why I can't fill my tank without fuel blowing out of the filler neck? I've seen the anti siphon valve on my brothers Cruisers but see nothing on this boat.

I soaked the supply line, fuel pump assembly, vent line, fuel flow sensor, and fill line with soapy water and no leaks appeared(@20psi). I could run this thing in the slip and no smell, but take it on a couple mile cruise and I could smell it. (randomly)

Also for some reason my boat holds water underneath the fuel tank that's actually pretty tough to get out. Does the tank sitting in water all the time cause some kind of leaching affect through the tank, and now that I have that area dry the smell is gone but it also hasn't has fuel sloshing around since October.

And finally I know these fuel pump assemblies fail due to internal paint flakes, but has there been any problems with fuel seeping through the body of the unit? My fuel pump seems to have an oily film on it but maybe I'm just grasping at straws here.

_________________
Our Boating Blog: http://ben-dana.blogspot.com/

2005 268 Vista "Sea Pickle II"
1979 AMF Alcort Puffer
Previous:
2003 FW190 Horizon
1973 Startcraft 18ft "Sea Pickle"

The anti siphon valve is what the fuel line that goes to the fuel pump attaches to on the top of the gas tank. It may look like a right angle aluminum fitting. Any boat that has the fuel pump lower than the top of the gas tank is required to have them as per CG regs. But as a practical matter all inboards have them. Because if the gas line from the tank to the pump leaks it will spill gas into the bilge. The anti siphon is a safety valve that shuts off the flow of gas when the engine is off. Spring loaded ball thing inside. When they get internally corroded you can have a fuel starvation problem.

Get your nose right down on that pump you might be onto something. If you cant get your nose down there than rub the oily stuff on your fingers and sniff. A gas pump should have no oily stuff on it at all unless something from up above leaked on it.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Thanks Lou that was a great explanation and yes I thought that was just a simple pick up with a 90 degree fitting Lol! On my brothers Cruisers he has some big tube thing inline of his vent hose so I was thinking along those lines for the anti siphon valve. So it sounds like the anti siphon valve is the same concept as a roll over valve on a cars fuel tank.

I agree that maybe it's time to take a closer look at the fuel pumps. Next time I go to the boat I'll take my fuel pressure gauges and keep cycling the ignition to prime the pump for a closer inspection. Was hoping for a cheaper fix than fuel pumps but at this point I just want to make sure we are operating a safe vessel

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Our Boating Blog: http://ben-dana.blogspot.com/

2005 268 Vista "Sea Pickle II"
1979 AMF Alcort Puffer
Previous:
2003 FW190 Horizon
1973 Startcraft 18ft "Sea Pickle"

I only skimmed through the thread so this might have already been mentioned but do you have a generator? If so, you might want to check the fuel line that goes to the fuel pump (see diagram below). This fuel line runs around and up behind the generator and there was a leak in mine way in the back and out of sight. It created a very strong smell in the mid-cabin and I had to get my tech to track it down.

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Current Boat: 2000 Four Winns 298 Vista
Previous Boat: 2000 Carver 406MY

I too get a gas smell in the cabin – not so much now, but in the warmer weather very noticeable. One of my winter projects was to route the cockpit TV audio to the radio. In doing this, I noticed there is a straight shot from the back of the electrical panel to the engine compartment. Any gas fumes in the engine compartment would find their way to the cabin. In my Sea Rays, the engine compartment was completely sealed from the cabin. So my new winter project is to use foam to attempt to seal the engine compartment from the cabin air.

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2010 Vista 338 Volvo Penta
2005 Yamaha Wave Runner FX HO

2005 SeaRay 280 SunDancer
2001 SeaRay 245 Weekender

Bliss36, you mentioned earlier the thought of sealing certain areas with expanding foam. This may be OK in some areas, but remember that the area under the aft cabin floor shares the same bilge pump and venting as the engine room. Don't block anything with foam that would affect drainage or bilge blower venting.

The 268, like many other boats, will give a "fuel refund" when filled up rapidly. Mine will usually do it unless I go absolutely as slow as possible toward the end. If you fuel flow shows total fuel used you could maybe refuel up to within 2-5 gallons of full and then go real slow and pause a time or two. I form a "doughnut" out of a wad of those blue paper towels at the gas station and form it around the gas pump nozzle when refueling, finish off as slow as possible, and hope I don't spill any. I don't think there is a check valve in the tank vent line at the filler neck. Looking in the filler neck you can see the baffle that prevents fuel from squirting straight out of the filler neck, but I think that is it.

Its hard to say what the source of oily film on your fuel pumps is. If or when its fuel pump time I believe it is a project that could be done by someone with reasonable ability, so you shouldn't have any issue. I understand that cycling the switch on repeatedly to bleed the system. The pump assembly does have fuel and water lines, so take some pictures before disassembling so you can remember which way fittings pointed, etc. I saw new pump assemblies last fall on ebay for approx. $600, but a dealer may go $900 or so. I went the dealer route because I was out of town most of the time when mine went out.

Fuel hoses shouldn't normally be a cause of fuel odor due to permeation, but I guess it is possible. It looks like changing the filler and vent hoses would be a big job.

20 psi. Wow. Good luck tracking the source.

_________________
Surface Interval: A scuba diving term for that time between dives to relax and prepare for life's next great adventure.

Current boat: '02 FW 268 Vista
Previous boat: '95 FW 190 Horizon

Even though some boats may have the engine compartment sealed off from the cabin areas, you still should not smell fuel vapors. I can tell you I have spent many hours in the engine compartment of my old boat and even with the original 27 year old tank and fuel lines it does not smell...
But the old tank is aluminum...
Could it be that over time poly tanks permeate more after 8-10 years than when new?
I've read complaints of this same problem on center console boats with the head inside the console.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

For once I'm happy I don't have a generator....once less thing to deal with while trying to diagnose this issue. It is crazy how a tiny drop of gas can create such a strong smell.

_________________
Our Boating Blog: http://ben-dana.blogspot.com/

2005 268 Vista "Sea Pickle II"
1979 AMF Alcort Puffer
Previous:
2003 FW190 Horizon
1973 Startcraft 18ft "Sea Pickle"

I would just like to seal the top of the tank, or at least get a better seal on the access panel to the fuel tank that my mattress sits on. I actually need to get the underside of my fuel tank draining water better since it seems to hold it under there and is hard to get out even when tilted back on a trailer...that doesn't seem right to me.


I have been on the receiving end of a couple "Fuel Refunds" from this boat including a complete shower the day we got it delivered, so I will be trying your blue towel donut trick.


Who knows whats happening there so the best bet might be to degrease the entire pump assembly and keep the pump pressurized to check if it returns.


I had the supply hose off the anti siphon valve at the start of the season so I could run the engine of a fuel injector solution and it still seems pliable but maybe I should replace it for good measure since it isn't very long. I also have a fuel sensor spliced in the line so I would feel better with a new hose and clamps installed.

20 psi. Wow. Good luck tracking the source.[/quote]

The part I'm struggling with the most is every time I smelled gas I tore the engine covers off and sniffed around my entire engine compartment with no trace of a fuel smell anywhere. I even took the spark arrester off to sniff the throttle bore thinking an injector was sticking and dripping after the engine was shut off, but nothing. As soon as I pulled the fuel tank cover off it was overwhelming and with no evidence of a leak that's whats frustrating me the most.

_________________
Our Boating Blog: http://ben-dana.blogspot.com/

2005 268 Vista "Sea Pickle II"
1979 AMF Alcort Puffer
Previous:
2003 FW190 Horizon
1973 Startcraft 18ft "Sea Pickle"

Does water count as "other objects located in compartments" since it does hold water under the tank? Does it have normal permeation but the fumes are building in that compartment and that's why it smells so strong? When I first took the cover off the smell was so strong I thought I would see a hole in the tank, but after leaving the cover off and draining the water there in no smell there at all now. I might have to contact Moeller and see what their thoughts are.

_________________
Our Boating Blog: http://ben-dana.blogspot.com/

2005 268 Vista "Sea Pickle II"
1979 AMF Alcort Puffer
Previous:
2003 FW190 Horizon
1973 Startcraft 18ft "Sea Pickle"

Thought I'd chime in with my experience which definitely lead to some fuel vapors in the bilge... There's a line that comes off the fuel pump reservoir that goes to the intake. It allows accumulated air in the fuel reservoir to purge through a float valve and keeps the high pressure fuel pump from cavitating. This valve went bad and was allowing fuel to dump directly into the intake manifold. I was able to detect this by having the flame arrestor off and turning the ignition key which primes the fuel system. I could see fuel dumping directly into the intake manifold causing the engine to flood. I'd visibly check this since obviously fuel shouldn't be there. I ended up buying a new fuel pump after a failed repair attempt.

Fuel vapors can migrate to small nooks and settle there since (obviously) its heavier than air. Maybe worth a shot!

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Current Boat:
2006 Chaparral 310 Signature

Previous:
2003 268 Vista
2004 Sea Doo GTX

20psi
It only takes 1/2 psi to 2 psi to do a bubble leak check with air. 20psi is nearly 1.5tons/sqr-ft! I had an aluminum aircraft fuel tank blow up like a pillow at 3.5 psi when my buddy got impatient waiting for the gage to go up to 1.5 psi! $800 mistake. I'm really surprised your plastic tank didn't rupture at that pressure. I know it turned out fine for you, but I'm writing this to caution future readers.

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings