Bow thruster project

Graham R · **Posted:** Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:49 pm

Haddock_ wrote:

I wasnt clear, the wire is 50mm^2 i.e it is like 1/8" in diameter, like the thickest between starter battery and engine.

I'm in the process of rewiring the battery set up on my 2009 278. It's a diesel and some of the cables are truly massive; Engine battery to master switch, master switch to starter, systems battery to breaker. Kudos to FW. It goes downhill from there unfortunately. True, the cable from the anchor windlass breaker to the windlass has a decent cross sectional area (XSA) and would be suitable for supplying a bowthruster. The standard cable on mine from the systems battery to that breaker is much smaller XSA though So they introduced a restriction at the source of the power. Likewise a coiled up cable behind the main battery panel when a much shorter thicker one would have been better and cheaper. Bonkers ! None of the cables are tinned. Also, the charger fuses were behind the main battery control panel; now relocated ( and changed to circuit breakers) in the engine compartment.

Being a diesel (D4) the engine cooling has anodes. The charge cooler one on the port side was impossible to remove without first removing a thick ground cable that is attached to a minor ground connector on the port side.. Totally stupid installation, there are perfectly useable M10 threaded holes on the starboard side of the engine. They saved maybe 50 cents for an extra bolt/ spring washer and spent considerably more on a longer cable. Ground connection to be relocated !

Funtastik · **Joined:** Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:32 pm **Posts:** 54

I must admit being in close quarters on your own with gusts of wind demands a bow thruster to keep you on course or at the very least avoid some nasty scratches.
But most boats of that size do not require one.
I have a bow thruster made by SideShift on my 298 and I rarely use it, but it has come in handy a few times over the years for minor correction.
Most people, instead of investing approx. 9G's on a BT, would find it more favourable to upgrade to a dual engine which in itself acts like a BT when needed.

Just an observation, don't want to ruffle any feathers

Jdpber · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:23 am

any new updates

Cap'n Morgan · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:36 am

Jdpber wrote:

any new updates

He just updated the thread yesterday, less than 16 hours ago. Are you expecting him to work through the night
on this without any sleep or having to go to work ?

Haddock_ · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:18 pm

Hehe

Relax guys

I do enjoy the attention this is getting

Yes, bigger boat with dual engine has been considered...but parked for the moment as it requires a lot of new things...for instance I loose the ability to take it for autumn/spring on my own. I would probably be starting over with a number of improvements, like relocated batteries, front ladder, battery monitor, solar panels, gps plotter...and the fact the wife doesnt want to spend more $...so this and some other electrical replatform (and potentially the bigger engine thing) might be a way to buy a few more years before upgrading. Secondly...the investment in a BT will so pay off if I want to sell one day. Thirdly, the current boat is in such a great shape and all the alternatives i have looked at are in much worse shape and needs refurbishment here and there and I like to develop, not renovate...

Since last weekend, I have procured marine plywood to build the supports I need and cut fibreglass for the radius filler. Now..unfortunately have to travel out of town on a work thing for a few days but will be back for weekend and a bit of work hopefully on Sunday.

Jdpber · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:19 pm

Cap'n Morgan wrote:

Jdpber wrote:

any new updates

He just updated the thread yesterday, less than 16 hours ago. Are you expecting him to work through the night
on this without any sleep or having to go to work ?

yes

Haddock_ · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:20 pm

Graham - I have seen some of the things you mention but either someone has done something or my particular example is in better shape. The one thing I know is different is my windlass is not factory, the wiring has been done afterwards and is very robust all the way to the battery terminals.

Paul I. · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:01 pm

Let me add, the battery for the bow thruster will have to be forward. To run cables to the engine compartment, that distance, you will need 1 or 0/1. Very large, very heavy and very $$$.

Personlly, you will not get your money back on resale. As some one pointed out, most boats that size do not need/have one. Plus, the wight and the room it takes up is another thing that makes it not worth it.

There is a firm, Side Shifter that makes one to be mounted out side the hull. I know were you can pick one up cheap. BUT only if your a lake boater. The ocean get too rough for one of these.

rpengr · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:09 pm

Funtastik wrote:

...Most people, instead of investing approx. 9G's on a BT, would find it more favourable to upgrade to a dual engine which in itself acts like a BT when needed.

But with Twin Engines and a bow thruster (and practice) you can walk the boat sideways... how cool would that be.

Haddock_ · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:23 pm

Paul I. wrote:

Let me add, the battery for the bow thruster will have to be forward. To run cables to the engine compartment, that distance, you will need 1 or 0/1. Very large, very heavy and very $$$.

Personlly, you will not get your money back on resale. As some one pointed out, most boats that size do not need/have one. Plus, the wight and the room it takes up is another thing that makes it not worth it.

There is a firm, Side Shifter that makes one to be mounted out side the hull. I know were you can pick one up cheap. BUT only if your a lake boater. The ocean get too rough for one of these.

Yes, battery forwards if needed. Agreed.

Dont agree at all on the resale. We live and boat I suspect in different worlds, here, there are few new boats of this size are sold without one...even aluminium bow riders at 21ft have them...the only reason most make do without is due to the complexity and cost to add one!

Space-wise...I'm using an unused space anyway and actually creating access to an otherwise unused cavity. I'd say I will be better off after it is done.

deafwish · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:04 pm

Surely you could make one of those water jet style bow thrusters with a reversible centrifugal pump, two venturi nozzles, DPDT switch and reverse polarity solenoid?
Nothing complex about the concept...

Graham R · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:24 pm

Haddock_ wrote:

Graham - I have seen some of the things you mention but either someone has done something or my particular example is in better shape. The one thing I know is different is my windlass is not factory, the wiring has been done afterwards and is very robust all the way to the battery terminals.

The windlass installation on mine is factory. The FW installed cable diameter from the 80A breaker in the battery switch panel is a very good size indeed, maybe even over-engineered for the 80A, not a bad thing at all; it's not as big as the battery cables, but it's significantly bigger than the short cable connecting the battery to the breaker though. The battery switch panel and wiring is a unit probably bought in, rather than FW manufactured. I had to cut some of the wires ( forward and aft bilge pumps) as part of the rewire, the flexible tinned cable I used has many more individual elements. Some of the crimping of terminals was a bit dodgy, not really crimped as such more like flattened.

Graham R · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:36 pm

Paul I. wrote:

Let me add, the battery for the bow thruster will have to be forward. To run cables to the engine compartment, that distance, you will need 1 or 0/1. Very large, very heavy and very $$$.

Personlly, you will not get your money back on resale. As some one pointed out, most boats that size do not need/have one. Plus, the wight and the room it takes up is another thing that makes it not worth it.

There is a firm, Side Shifter that makes one to be mounted out side the hull. I know were you can pick one up cheap. BUT only if your a lake boater. The ocean get too rough for one of these.

Resale value adding or not, , who cares if it makes your boating more pleasant?

I'm moving batteries around to tidy the engine compartment wiring up (my wife reckons it 's OCD! ). I'd estimate that the American wiring gauge that FW fitted for the windlass is at least as big as the 50mm2 cables I have used; continuous current rating 345A. Plenty big enough for a bow thruster, I'd imagine.

Paul I. · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:43 pm

rpengr wrote:

Funtastik wrote:

...Most people, instead of investing approx. 9G's on a BT, would find it more favourable to upgrade to a dual engine which in itself acts like a BT when needed.

But with Twin Engines and a bow thruster (and practice) you can walk the boat sideways... how cool would that be.

With twin engines AND A LOT of practice! You can make the boat go sideway without a thruster.

Paul I. · **Posted:** Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:45 pm

Haddock_ wrote:

Paul I. wrote:

Let me add, the battery for the bow thruster will have to be forward. To run cables to the engine compartment, that distance, you will need 1 or 0/1. Very large, very heavy and very $$$.

Personlly, you will not get your money back on resale. As some one pointed out, most boats that size do not need/have one. Plus, the wight and the room it takes up is another thing that makes it not worth it.

There is a firm, Side Shifter that makes one to be mounted out side the hull. I know were you can pick one up cheap. BUT only if your a lake boater. The ocean get too rough for one of these.

Yes, battery forwards if needed. Agreed.

Dont agree at all on the resale. We live and boat I suspect in different worlds, here, there are few new boats of this size are sold without one...even aluminium bow riders at 21ft have them...the only reason most make do without is due to the complexity and cost to add one!

Space-wise...I'm using an unused space anyway and actually creating access to an otherwise unused cavity. I'd say I will be better off after it is done.

Yep!

Your in the U.K. and I am in the U.S.A.

www.iFourWinns.com

Bow thruster project

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