www.iFourWinns.com

OK guys more questions. The local marina just pulled the drive unit and found water in the bellows. The gimball bearing is apparently seized and the U-Joints are rusty. They are telling me I have to change the Gimball bearing, Bellows and U-Joints. changing the bellows and Gimball bearing seems to make sense, however, the price is $700 which seems high. I am struggling with the U-Joints. They do have some surface rust on them but they are not pitted from the rust. It seems to me that they are greased well they should be fine. Besides, I plan to service the drive each year so I can look at the U-Joints again in the fall. Also, they are quoting me $500 to change the U-Joints (Parts & Labor).

Your thoughts and advice is appreciated. Should I change the U-Joints? Whats the worst case scenario if I don't change them and they fail...can they cause catastropic failure to other parts of the drive? Also what should I be paying to change the bellows and Gimball bearing?

Thanks

-Bob

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2000 H190
5.0 EFI / Volvo Penta

This is just my opinion as I am not a marine mechanic, just a fire truck mechanic.

700.00 for the gimbal bearing and the bellows seems a bit high to me. The same on the u joints. I know they have to make money but damn. If the u joints are nice and tight, and have no slop in them at all or any stiff spots, you there wouldnt really be any reason to change them.

If there was a catastrophic failure of a u joint, I think you would have wished you would have changed them, due to the addtional damage that would occur. However, on a pleasure boat, the likleyhood of a failure without warning would be pretty slim. If one started to go, you would get a vibration for awhile, then they would clunk going into gear. You would really have to try to have a catastrophic failure.

Now having said all that if the bellows was bad and the gimal bearing had water in them, and the unjoints were in the water, I would be inclined to change them. Maybe you can negotiate a better deal or get another estimate. With the economy the way it is, I would think that marinas and dealer might be hungry for some work and make you a better deal. IMO.

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Jeff

'14 Cruisers 380 Express "Simon Sez"
Merc 8.2 Mag MPI 380
DTS B3X, (x2) Axius Premier


(SOLD)
'08 V318
Merc 350 Mag MPI 300
DTS Seacore, B3 (x2)

Yep.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

The "problem" with the UJs that makes replacement expensive is that VP no longer sell the UJs as individual items, they only sell the shaft/ UJ / coupler/ UJ/ input shaft into the outdrive as a single unit. This means the outdrive has to be partialy dismantled/ measured/ shimmed to fit the replacement.

Someone from Australia posted some photos a few months ago showing the damage a drive shaft failure can cause ( I don't recall an explanation for what failed and why). His bill was VERY expensive. It's up to you if you want to risk it !

Graham

I'd get them changed out. Start calling around marina's to get prices. Call your boating friends and see who they recommend. I know with the economy the way it is, someone has to know a marine mechanic looking to do some work on the side. Might save you a bundle.

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2007 358 T-5.7GXi IB
Previous Boats
'08 H240, '08 V318, '04 268, '04 225

+2 on firecadet I would bite the bullet now rather then the cannon later. DREW

I had the bellows and gimble bearing on my Cobra done about 4 years ago for about 350 and that's Long Island NY prices. The ujoints are a tough call, when I had mine done, there was water in the bellows (salt water). But because I took it in at the end of that season, it was found right away and the mechanic felt that since he got to it right then and greased up the joints well, that they'd be OK. And he was right, they are still fine and there is really no rust on the yokes even with the leak I had (probably only a brief time). This points out the benefit of pulling the drive right at the end of the season, so the water doesn't sit there all winter rusting things.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Was Kyp2 in Australia Graham... Cost him something like AU$9,000 for the repair when the uni joints let go - good job he had insurance. Not heard from him since he put it in for repair. The season if pretty much over for us now until Spetember.

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Alec

2006 Horizon 190
VP 4.3GL/SX, Sunsport

Just another thought on this; even though the U/Js are not replaceable (rather, they are no longer available from VP, not necessarily the same thing!), they are actually removeable. Each U/J has 4 needle roller bearings and each bearing casing has it's own seal designed toi keep grease in. Provided the bearing casings are not cracked in the removal process as they are pushed out, the rollers and bearing surfaces on the yokes can be inspected and if free of water/ rust and OK, the whole assembly greased and reassembled. More work, but probably less expensive than a new assembly. If the yokes and intermediate section are very rusty, the removal process could be difficult and with a higher likelihood of cracking a casing.

9 days before my boat is launched, I must remember to put the transom plug in; I almost forgot last year, the first time ever !

Graham

Another thought on this, if when you grease them, the grease comes out looking milky, that's a good indication that there was water in the roller bearings in the ujionts and makes it more likely that they should be replaced, and if there is rust on the input shaft where the seal for the upper unit is, that also leads to replacement because if the rust tears up that seal you will have a gear oil leak into the bellows and the drive will be low on oil which can lead to gear failure.

On the other hand my 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee has 6 u-joints....2 on each driveshaft (one is a double cardan), and 2 on each front axle shaft...none have grease fittings and they are all orginal....11 years and 120000 miles....driven through water, snow, in salt air....and still OK.... but maybe they use different seals because they are not greaseable? r

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

If was me I'd go ahead & have them replace everything now & not have to worry about it.

It's easy to say "just replace everything", but might not be as easy for some to come up with $1,200 to pay for it now.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

The U joints are not a special item. If you measure them you will find them at a standard auto parts store. While the marina has the outdrive out it shouldnt be more than a hour labor more than changing the gimble bearing and bellows.

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97 205 Sundowner

It will be a lot more than $1200 when the rusty U-joints come apart and breaks the gimbal housing and the drive, engine, and gimbal have to be removed to fix it.

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1987 Four Winns Liberator 211, formerly OMC 460 King Kobra powered, replaced in 2006 by a 1997 Mercruiser 454/Bravo III

Topper, you can buy individual u-joint, we both have 2000 boats.

We bought this 248 used, knew that it needed some work.
Found that the bellows had a small hole, gimbal bearing making noise.

I replaced the bellows, gimbal bearing, u-joints (bought individual joints from volvo dealer, and could have bought from NAPA as well),new steering pin and bushings.
I believe I was into parts around $400, but I did it myself so theres the difference in labor, but I spent a weekend vs a shop doing it in a few hours.
My other costs to do the job, I built a outdrive stand, rented a bearing puller $15 (gimbal bearing), made a gimbal bearing install tool, and bought a shop press that I have been wanting for some time (just an excuse, I have done many u-joints without a press for years) Actually, the u-joints didn't really need to be pressed out or back in, everything went together very nice (but dont tell my wife ).

I did buy all Volvo parts for the job and could have saved a little more had I gone to NAPA or bearing supply house, looking at the parts, there is no difference marine vs, auto, a u-joint and bearing are just that.
Volvo parts:
gimball bearing $64
bellows $45
u-joint $134 each ($265 for the pair) Complete rip off!!!!
0-rings and seals $20


When I took the U-joints apart, there was no water in them, they could have gone for some time, but I desided to replace while I had everything apart.




I am no mechanic, but I enjoy working on all my toys, fixing/working on them is 1/2 the fun of having them. I just got an old Farmall tractor to launch the boat at the lake, this is and has been quite the project getting it ready, but fun.



As far as price for a shop to do the job, I think it sound high, but looking at price of parts and shop rates, it may not be that far off.
Gotta pay to play!!!!!

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2000 248 5.7L DP
'92, '94 SXI 750, '08 STX 15F, '12 Ultra LX 300
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