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 Post subject: Four Winns Observations
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:16 am 
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Location: West Michigan
So as not to completly de-rail the V305 thread, I thought I would share some comments, quotes that
were very recently stated in an article published in IBI market report w/regards to FW and Project Boat
Holdings (their new owners). I'm a bit concerned over what I read, see what you guys think.

Some background:
Platinum Equity (Project Boat Holdings)acquired the brands from Genmar's bankruptcy.
Project Boat Holdings became Project Fish Holdings (Ranger, Stratos and Triton) and Project Rec Holdings (Four Winns, Wellcraft and Glastron).
During the 2009 bankruptcy, Genmar’s production was cut back to a bare minimum as the company awaited its fate.
Through the first six months of 2008, for instance, Ranger had sold 2,874 units at retail. A year later, that number had dropped to 1,808, and for the first half of 2010, the number had declined to 1,562. Four Winns, which sold 1,425 retail units in the first two quarters of 2008, saw its first-half numbers drop to 606 units in 2010. The retail numbers are a sober reminder that the brands continue to face hard times.
Roch Lambert was brought in by PE to run the newly acquired business. A huge task for him.
Quote:
Lambert also had more than production to salvage during the startup phase. The dealer networks, which were in limbo during the bankruptcy sale, were unsure what the new company would look like. Some complained about a marked lack of communication from the company during both the bankruptcy and post-bankruptcy phases. Saying that he wanted to eliminate a layer of management, Lambert sacked two longtime Four Winns executives, Jeff Olson and Rick Fulmer several months after arriving. Lambert says his recreational brands didn’t lose any dealers “of any significance” because of the Genmar bankruptcy. One also gets the impression that Glastron is the new darling of the division, rather than Four Winns, which saw its sales rise during Olson’s tenure as president



Lots to digest, I know. But I am concerned about several of Mr. Lamberts statements regarding dealers, and the position of Four Winns in the big picture. Four Winns will be around for a long time, but it sure seems to be going in a much different direction than I had hoped. For better or worse, former Genmar CEO Irwin Jacobs once said " I intend for Four Winns to be at a higher level of quality and sales than Sea Ray in the near future"

At least for now, it seems that Four Winns may never want to reach that level. Thoughts? Comments ?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:39 am 
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230 Mike
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I agree. I never bought the whole "See? Everything's going to be just fine now" position. I don't know how much volume a dealer needs to generate in order to be "significant," but I can tell you that here in the center of the country - where there is more and better boating than many might expect - Four Winns is now a name that might as well have never existed. There is NO presence to speak of here, and it's been my impression that dealers have been the absolute last thing anyone at HQ cared about during the last two years. If I'm a boat builder in this economy, I'm rolling out the red carpet for ANY dealer that is willing to sell ONE of my boats.

On the plus side, my boat stands to become a collector's item among lower-Midwest boat buyers. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:16 pm 
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I'm certainly no expert, however, with the other things that have been discussed. I wonder if PBH is looking at Four Winns to be more the "International" brand and keep Glastron as the primary US brand for the recreational side of the business.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:00 pm 
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Quote:
Four Winns will be around for a long time, but it sure seems to be going in a much different direction than I had hoped. For better or worse, former Genmar CEO Irwin Jacobs once said " I intend for Four Winns to be at a higher level of quality and sales than Sea Ray in the near future"


In my opinion I feel that Four Winns was heading in the right direction prior to the bankruptcy as far as design and quality. After seeing the v305 I'm not so confident in the direction of the deisign team. I can't believe they couldn't take a step back at anytime during the building of the v305 and say...wow this thing is ugly... lets start over.

I have always felt that Four Winns has a terrible marketing department. If they really wanted to compete with Sea Ray sales they would have to really make huge investments in marketing. Sea Ray seems to put just as much effort into building the "Sea Ray lifestyle" as it puts into building its boats. It's almost like the "lifestyle" associated with owning a Harley Davidson motorcycle.

Sea Ray also seems to hold their dealerships to a higher standard. I've visited alot of boat dealerships, and my local SR dealer is the only dealer that performed a independent follow up customer satifaction survey phone call after we visited to look at a 280 sundancer. We use those surveys all the time in the automotive business so it was nice to be on the other end of one for once, but more importantly it showed me that they actually cared about the qaulity of our experience at their dealership.

Now with all those things said about SR we still chose our FW268 because of the styling and build quality.....but I have to be honest I am more than a little nervous about the changes and possible new direction at Four Winns :?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:07 pm 
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I love my boat, but as I have stated a lot lately because its a real sore spot with me... there is no Four Winns dealer in my state anymore. Pretty simple to figure out what my next boat WON'T be if there isn't any around to buy....

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:21 pm 
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Bliss...I am in the car business too and I agree, Four Winns marketing sucks and always has. Sea Ray does a great job as stated as demonstrating that its more than owning a boat...its is a lifestyle.

I always say, there are boat owners and there are boaters. Boaters are the hardcore, the real enthusiasts of the product. Sea Ray takes "boaters" seriously and Four Winns can't even keep their web page current.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:57 am 
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aguyindallas wrote:
Four Winns can't even keep their web page current.


To further my point about the possibility that Glastron will be the "primary" brand in the US going forward...take a look at Glastron's new website. Now there may have been more incentive to get that website updated, since the old one was all about VEC and Genmar which is obviously no longer true. However, it sure doesn't seem like it would take much to get the Four Winns website updated with the new for 2011 models.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:07 am 
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The Glastron website looks very nice. They did a good job.

I agree, it does seem that it would not be too difficult for Four Winns to get their website updated for the new model year in a more timely fashion, like 90% of the other builders do. :roll:

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Last edited by Cap'n Morgan on Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:29 pm 
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What about the overseas sales (good point RotaryRacer)? Have they increased for Four Winns as it is obvious that the new 305V is geared towards the European market? Perhaps Gores knows that boaters in the U.S. aren't going to buy new in this market. Remember, Europeans are buying this U.S. built boat for .75 cents on the dollar.

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