www.iFourWinns.com

Hi everyone,

We're interested in trying to use a wakeboard, but... we know nothing about them whatsoever. I've looked at them in stores and online but realize that there appears to be differences in the styles (some have ridges on the bottom, some are totally flat), and in the "boots" (they way they clamp to the board, the way they lace up, etc).

Are there any recommendations for a beginners wakeboard? I've seen prices range from a $160 to over $300 and while I don't want to pay a ton since we're just beginners, I don't necessarily want to pay "cheap" and then have a "cheap" board which wouldn't facilitate us learning.

Do you put the wakeboard on while still on the boat or in the water? (I can't even imagine trying to get them on in the water...).

I know a tower is best for wakeboarding, but until we see if it's going to be something we really want to do, I'll be hooking up the tow line to the tow eye for now.

Any info, advice, recommendations would be appreciated.

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Greg

1997 Horizon 200
1998 F150 4x4

Greg, I'm a wakeboarder, so I'll try to get you started out. First things first, you are on the right track in your thinking about the board. DO NOT go on the cheap and buy something from Wal-Mart or Boater's World or something like that. DO NOT buy a Hydroslide either. DO NOT buy a board with little straps as the "holders" for your feet. Buy fully enclosing boots (but open toes are OK) and stick to the following brands:

Liquid Force
Hyperlite
CWB (Connelley Wakeboards)
O'Brien

There are a few others out there, but these are the best mainstream board companies out there. You can find their stuff most anywhere, and they make boards from beginner to professional levels. There are plenty of places to buy a board online and get a good deal. You can still find some 2006's out there for pretty good prices. What sites?

http://www.wakeside.com
http://www.the-house.com
http://www.wakeworld.com
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/home/index.jsp

As for which one to buy, there are a few things to factor in. First, is skill level. You should buy a beginner board, and most of those will have some fins molded into the bottom, as well as a larger removable fin in the middle on each end. A flat-bottomed board with nothing, or only little ridges, on the bottom will be very hard to control and MUCH less enjoyable to ride and learn on.

Second is size. The length of the board relates to the rider's weight. If you have small kids and adults trying to ride it, you may have to consider more than one board. For example, many kids' boards are in the low 110 to 120 cm range in length. I am 190lbs, and I ride a 143 cm board. While the kids COULD theoretically ride my board, it would be way too big and fast for them.

Third is the bindings. Most bindings are universal and will fit most boards(if you stick to the above manufacturers). But, they do come in sizes (S, M, M/L, L, L/XL, XL, XXL XXXL) and are not all that adjustable in size. Again, something to consider if you and the kids (or multiple kids ranging quite a bit in age) are going to ride it. Might have to buy a couple sets of bindings. Go for comfort and good fit above all else. Uncomfortable bindings, or bindings that are too small, hurt your feet and turn them red and make you want to get off the board ASAP instead of riding it and having fun. The best bindings are made of materials other than black rubber. Rubber based bindings are not out of the question for beginners, but they will stretch and tear pretty quickly. They are also a bit less comfortable.

So, first you need to figure out how many riders you will have. If there is a large range in those riders' weights and foot sizes, you are probably looking at 2 sets of bindings and possibly two different sized boards. Know that the bindings swap out relatively quickly, though. A few minutes at the most- the hardware is similar to the quick-release hubs on mountain and racing bikes (if you are familiar with those) and generally doesn't require wrenches or screwdrivers when swapping them out. Sometimes they do require a screwdriver for the initial mount to the board, though. Also, if your foot is on the larger end of what the binding will fit, you might have to use some binding lube or dishsoap to get in them easier. Dishsoap is less environmentally friendly, though.

Here is a CWB Sol board combo that I would recommend as a good beginner board, and it is not outrageously priced. The CWB Mobe bindings are "hinged" so that you can open them up, stick your foot in, and then clamp the hinge closed and you are in them:

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2522128&cp=2367826.2672646.2672689&cp=2367826.2672646&fbn=Brand%7CCWB&f=Brand%2F90316%2F&fbc=1&categoryId=2672689&parentPage=search&searchId=17253321253

I own a Liquid Force Team 143 myself, and I am a LF guy, so I would recommend either an Omega or a Nemesis as their beginner boards. Dick's carries both of these on their website, but you should be able to find them on the others as well.

No matter what you buy, the best deal is to buy a board and bindings as a package. They are not normally sold together, so you have to either buy them separately or as what most sites call a "combo" or a "package." It will cost WAY more to buy them separately. Generally, you see the same board packaged with a few different types of bindings so that you can choose from a few options. The better bindings will make the price of the combo go up some. My theory is to buy the best bindings possible, because you can pull those bindings off of the board and put them on another one later if you upgrade the board, provided the bindings still fit and you haven't torn them up.

Finally, once you have selected a decent board/bindings and NOT paid more than $300 for the combo (this IS possible), you have to learn how to put it on and ride it. Riding it is easy-it is like a skateboard or a snowboard. Getting up can be tough at first, but we can talk about that later if you end up getting a board. You don't need a tower right away, and really don't ever need one unless you are advanced to the point where you are jumping the entire wake, trying to do flips, etc. Even then you can do all that without a tower. So, hook the rope up to the ski tow-it will be just fine. Putting on bindings can be a little tougher. I started out boarding behind a boat with no swim deck, so I got used to putting mine on in the water. Wasn't easy, but can be done. Now, my new boat has a platform, so I just sit on it, put my feet in the bindings, and then scoot my butt over to the edge of the platform so that the board is already hanging in the water and I jump in and away from the platform.

This will probably spark a lot of questions for you, so fire away. If you want to do it on the thread, so that anyone else can learn with you, that is fine with me. If you start board shopping, and want to bounce your proposals off of me, I'll be glad to help you with that as well. However, that might be better served if you PM me on that stuff if you have a ton of them you are looking at. I'm not opposed to going over some of the board choices with you on the thread though, again, to benefit all who are following.

So, fire away!

_________________
Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)

Wow Paul!!! Great information and we're really thankful of it also.

I suspected there was a lot more to it then just buying the board (and it was combo's we were looking at), but now I have some specifics to look for.

I agree that we're probably going to have to get multiple boards based on size/weight as you indicated.

Lemme dwelll a bit on the information you provided and start looking around and no, I have no problem with keeping it here on the boards as it might help someone else out.

lol - I was actually going to "pull over" a boat that was doing wakeboarding this weekend to talk to them, but then remembered this wonderful forum....

I'm sure I'll have more questions and stuff and will post back when I do.

Thanks again very very much!

_________________


Greg

1997 Horizon 200
1998 F150 4x4

Greg,
I would check with your boat dealer/dealers in your area, also see if there are any wakeboard shops near you, ask if they demo boards. This is the best way. espc when there are so many board on the market, and they are not cheap.

I demoed 3 different boards and went with the one I felt was more comfortable form me to ride.

It's easier to put the board on before you get in the water, but you can still put them on in the water. the best thing is to get binding slime this makes it so much easier to put the bindings on, it's like a liquid soap that you put into the binding, and allows you to slide easily into the binding.

I rode for 4 years without a tower behind an outboard w/110 hp and still could get air. I basiclly worked on all my surface tricks and riding switch. before i got the new boat and tower


Once you are able to get up and make turns and go wake to wake you are going to love it.

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2005 Horizon 200 LE - Volvo Penta 5.0GXi 270

Good suggestion on the demo. I omitted that because the board shops in my area would only offer a demo on the most expensive, professional-type of advanced boards that they sold. At that time, I was a beginner-intermediate, so they didn't have anything I was interested in to demo.

The only real value to demo-ing beginner boards is to get a feel for comfort/fit of the bindings in the water. Pretty tough to demo a board if you've never ridden one-you have no idea what the things you are feeling really mean. This, of course, is assuming that you know how to get up on it and actually ride it a bit.

_________________
Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)

First thing using a boat without a large swimdeck I suggest getting CWB bindings with the hinge. It will make getting the board on and off a lot easier and more comfortable. As far as boards get a brand name CWB, liquid force, hyperlite etc. Try out the CWB transcend, I find it rides the easiest without alot of drag on the rider (Rides on top of the water ). You will end up paying about 500 for it but its worth it,

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Four winns 180 horizon

my200,

Can I ask where you got your tower? Did you get it with the boat? I'm in New Durham, have a 2002 220 and I'm thinking of getting one.

Thanks

I actually just added the tower this spring.

It's the Skylon Swoop X-Treme Wakeboard Tower. It is great, the pictures on the Skylon/Overtons web site don't do it justice.

I ordered it through my dealer here in NH. I had them put it on. i didn't want to mess that up. Very quite plus wife likes not having the boards all over the boat.

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2005 Horizon 200 LE - Volvo Penta 5.0GXi 270

size matters too, depending on your weight. my kids use 124cm from memory, mine for 100kg is 142cm.

too small for you and you'll kate it, too large and its just as tough.
no tower is fine
good bindings are more important than a fancy triple rockered, multi channeled board !


enjoy

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Pet575 et al,

Can anyone suggest technique for getting up. I tried for the first time this last weekend and got tired out from fighting the boat. I think I stayed in the board perpendicular to boat position for too long. When my brother in law tried for the first time, he fought like I did, but on 2nd try, immediately pointed the board toward the boat as soon as he was being pulled. He popped out of the water with that technique.

_________________
88 Horizon 200
5L OMC 230hp

Thought of another question, What foot do you place where??

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88 Horizon 200
5L OMC 230hp

Simpler question first: which foot to place where. You want your stronger leg/foot to be in the back when you are riding "normal". When you do a 180, then you are riding what is called "switch".

When "normal"
left foot forward=regular
right foot forward= goofy (me-in more than one way)

How to figure whether you are regular or goofy? If you've ever skateboarded or snow boarded, ride it the same way-you already know. If you haven't, or can't remember, then stand with your feet together on solid ground and close your eyes. Have someone push you forward from behind, and whichever foot you put forward first to catch yourself from falling is your stronger foot. Put THAT foot in back.

GETTING UP
This is debated over and over again, and there really is no one way to do it. Whatever works for you is what you do, but there are SOME general rules that are universal no matter what you do. My brother and I both did it completely different until we could get up every time with no problem. He used to do the "turn the board" thing that you mention, but now he does it my way because he thinks it is easier. However, the most important thing is to get up a few times in a row. You'll understand what it is supposed to feel like, and then really figure out what works for you. Here are those rules, and what works for ME:

1. Forget most of what you learned about getting up on a slalom ski. I spent two weekends frustrated and unhappy because I was a slalom skier learning to board who continued to "fight the boat" because that can actually work when getting up on a slalom ski.
2. DO NOT FIGHT THE BOAT.
3. DO NOT STRAIGHTEN YOUR LEGS AGAINST THE PULL OF THE BOAT.
4. DO NOT FIGHT THE BOAT.
5. DO NOT LEAN BACK HARD AGAINST THE PULL OF THE BOAT.
6. DO NOT FIGHT THE BOAT.
7. DO NOT PULL ON THE ROPE AGAINST THE PULL OF THE BOAT.
8. DO NOT FIGHT THE BOAT.
9. Getting up on a wakeboard is somewhat like getting up on 2 skis- you let the boat pull you up, but don't let it pull you so much that you go over the toes of the skis. So, on the wakeboard, you try to balance your weight at your hips. The LAST thing you want to do is put your weight on your toes.
10. DO NOT FIGHT THE BOAT.

END OF RULES-beginning of "MY" way of doing it (and most others' way too)
11. Board is parallel to water line (some say perpendicular to boat), with your toes pointing at the sky.
12. Rope is between your feet, handle is between your knees.
13. Arms are straight.
14. As boat begins to pull, allow the force of the water to push your knees toward your chest while continuing to keep your arms straight. You will feel like your heels are going to hit your butt. That is a good thing. Let it happen and keep them there.
15. DO NOT FIGHT THE BOAT.
16. Use your hips as the fulcrum point to prevent you from going over the front of the board while the boat is pulling. DO NOT do this by straightening your legs or leaning WAY back. You do have to lean back a tiny bit to keep from putting weight on your toes, but don't do it by extending your back way back there. Instead, think about continuing to squat and dropping your hips just behind your heels. Another way to think of it is sliding your hips forward a bit so that they are just *a little* closer to the boat than your shoulders. DO NOT think about it as "digging your heels into the water." This will just lead to you leaning back too hard and/or straightening your legs-a/k/a "fighting the boat." If you resist the urge to straighten the legs and pull with the arms, you will figure out pretty quickly how to balance while squatting just by sliding your hips forward/backward.

Some people say to picture a baseball catcher, squatting and waiting for a pitch. Picture him squatting holding a ski rope, and then rocking his weight back just a little so that his body parts face the pitchers mound in the following order:
board
feet/knees
hips
back/shoulders/head

One more thing about the catcher-his feet are still flat on the ground because, as the boat pulls, the board will plane and flatten out on top of the water. If the catcher rocked back on his heels only, he would be digging them into the water and not allowing the board to plane ("fighting the boat"). You can actually practice this positioning on land with a rope and bare feet, keeping your feet flat on the ground, and feel pretty quickly how your hips' location will allow your feet to be flat without you putting weight on your toes. It was this particular thing that helped me "get it" in my head-I squatted without a board, put a rope in my hands with my arms straight, and had my brother hold the rope tight and raise and lower me without me bending my back or moving my hips, to simulate the balancing when my hips moved forward/backward as he raised/lowered me with the rope. It was a great way to simulate the pull of the boat.

Don't hurry through this step, there is no rush to stand up. You could sit in this position for hours (if your knees could handle it) and never fall forward, so make sure you stay here until you get a good feel for when the board is on plane. When you think it is on plane, count to 3-then you know for sure it is-and then it is time to go to the next step.

17. Stand up ONLY after you feel that the board is on plane. If you stand up too early, you sink some and will lose your balance more easily. You could ride around all day squatted down or standing up with the board perpendicular to the boat, so resist the feeling that you have to hurry up and get the board into a normal riding position (parallel to the boat).
18. Turn the board very last. Once you get the board on plane and stand up, this happens pretty naturally.
19. Finally, DO NOT FIGHT THE BOAT.

I know this seems wordy and like I'm making it really complicated, but I'm really trying to ram home the details on the use of your hips for balance. If you are following all of what I'm saying so far, then it really comes down to 2 simple things:
1. Do not fight the boat in any way. The more you relax everything, the better off you are.
2. Balance with your hips as the boat pulls you up and the board gets on plane.

Good luck.

Oh yeah, one more thing I may not have mentioned: DO NOT FIGHT THE BOAT.

_________________
Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)

Thank you for the tips, I'm going to practice the "catcher" position on land. Everything you said makes lots of sense, I hope I can translate it on the water.

Thanks Again

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88 Horizon 200
5L OMC 230hp

No problem. Hope it helps. Let me know how you do.

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Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)

Thanks for all the great info Pet - Now I've got all winter to dwell on this. I'll also be shopping for a board prior to spring and now have a great place to turn for help.

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-Rob.


Current boat: 2011 Yamaha AR210
Previous boat: 1998 Horizon RX 4.3GL SX