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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Seahorse

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:01 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Richmond, VA
So one question for the folks with factory (or aftermarket for that matter) trim tabs: Where is your speedo pickup? In looking at these pictures Sushi posted and then looking at the back of my boat, I have a speedo pickup right in the middle of where the starboard tab would go. Where are the pickups on your boat?

I just purchased my H230 about a month ago and I must say I am disappointed with the quality of the ride at slow speeds. My boat does not want to go less than 25 MPH without sticking the bow up towards the sky. If you touch the trim at higher speeds it has a bad tendency to porpoise on anything but flat water. I had a 1989 Stingray 20' bowrider without tabs than performed better than this boat at any speed which seems odd to me. Honestly, I bought this boat without test driving it because I really like the floorplan and the features. Trim tabs seem like the obvious solution to get the bow down but I don't see the obvious solution for relocating my speedo pickup. Any guidance?

On a related topic, can anyone explain why our hulls have the huge step in the stern? I am not an expert on anything but it seems like cutting out that huge chunk of planing surface would only make this problem worse. What is the point of the step in the hull?

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Jim
Richmond, Virginia
2005 Horizon 230 w/ Volvo 5.7GXI Duoprop
Towed by: 2007 Chevy Tahoe 4x4 LTZ
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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:29 pm 
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230 Mike
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Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:59 pm
Posts: 5141
Location: Kansas City, Table Rock Lake
Does your boat still have the original F5 props? Mine stays on plane fine starting at about 18mph. This hull is sensitive to trim adjustment at higher speeds and it's easy to make it porpoise.

Myself, I've had no desire to add tabs but I've never quite understood how it would be possible to anyway for the reasons you cited. Not only is the pitot tube in the way, but tie down straps are a concern too.

Those steps, or sponsons, are an attempt to eliminate the need for tabs I believe.

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2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 7:16 pm 
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Lake Michigan - Unsalted

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:38 pm
Posts: 867
Location: Comstock Park / Grand Haven (Barretts)
If you need a set of F5 props, let me know.

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2001 Horizon 260 - 7.4 Volvo GSI DP

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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 8:06 pm 
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Seahorse

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:01 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Richmond, VA
The boat is on the lift at the moment so I can't easily check the props. They appear to be stock or at least I can say they are nothing exotic. The acceleration and top end of the boat are very good considering the size. With that said, I have no idea how props could have an effect on planing speed. It seems like that would be completely based on the hull. Can you enlighten me?

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Jim
Richmond, Virginia
2005 Horizon 230 w/ Volvo 5.7GXI Duoprop
Towed by: 2007 Chevy Tahoe 4x4 LTZ
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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:36 am
Posts: 678
Location: Northshore Boston & 1000 Islands
You should have a set of F5 prop for H230/240…and make sure they have not repaired wrong if they are damage-repaired props. Some of you might remember when I hit rock with my Props. I sent a local repair shop and fixed them. The repaired props looked great and no marking or noticeable off shape. However. The boat performed very poorly especially at low speed. It did not plane as smooth as before and need higher speed to maintain as well.Image
I sent them to more reputable prop shop and they repair,reworked and balanced per VP spec. The boat came back life after this work….

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08 H260 VP 8.1Gi DP.....Previous
2013 Crownline E6 Merc 8.2MAG BIIIX, DTS/SC


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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:15 pm 
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Seahorse

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:01 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Richmond, VA
Sushi, where is your speedometer pickup? Is it a paddle wheel or pitot tube?

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Jim
Richmond, Virginia
2005 Horizon 230 w/ Volvo 5.7GXI Duoprop
Towed by: 2007 Chevy Tahoe 4x4 LTZ
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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:36 am
Posts: 678
Location: Northshore Boston & 1000 Islands
Quote:
Sushi, where is your speedometer pickup? Is it a paddle wheel or pitot tube?

My VP has a pitot tube... and it works decent... I have to clean up tube couple times in season when speedometer stop working... I rely on my GPS speed but nice to have a functional matching gauges

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08 H260 VP 8.1Gi DP.....Previous
2013 Crownline E6 Merc 8.2MAG BIIIX, DTS/SC


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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:23 am
Posts: 258
Location: Atlanta GA
I think I am going to do these instead of Bennetts...

http://www.jmsonline.net/ql-by-volvo-18 ... 841716.htm

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2003 Horizon 240 With 5.7 Volvo Penta
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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 10:20 pm 
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Seahorse

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:01 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Richmond, VA
Flying Sushi wrote:
Quote:
Sushi, where is your speedometer pickup? Is it a paddle wheel or pitot tube?

My VP has a pitot tube... and it works decent... I have to clean up tube couple times in season when speedometer stop working... I rely on my GPS speed but nice to have a functional matching gauges


So where is it? I looked at the pictures of your tabs and I don't see a pickup anywhere on the transom.

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Jim
Richmond, Virginia
2005 Horizon 230 w/ Volvo 5.7GXI Duoprop
Towed by: 2007 Chevy Tahoe 4x4 LTZ
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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 7:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 258
Location: Iowa
I think Sushi's pilot tube is integrated in his outdrive. I have the transom mounted version. If you look at the picture I posted on the first page, you can't see my pilot tube as it is mounted to the right of the outdrive. However, the pilot tube hose runs up the transom along the same basic path as the tie down straps. On my setup, the tie down straps stick out from the transom far enough so they don't interfere with the pilot tube pickup or it's hose. FYI, I also have a water temp sensor mounted on the right hand side of the outdrive next to the pilot tube pickup. There's plenty of room between the outdrive and the tabs for these accessories.

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2005 FW Horizon 250
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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 7:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:36 am
Posts: 678
Location: Northshore Boston & 1000 Islands
Quote:
Sushi, where is your speedometer pickup? Is it a paddle wheel or pitot tube?

Image
It is tinny hole (about1/8" diameter).... nice design but it does clog up time to time

Image
Tubing from pitot tube to speedometer

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08 H260 VP 8.1Gi DP.....Previous
2013 Crownline E6 Merc 8.2MAG BIIIX, DTS/SC


Last edited by Flying Sushi on Sun May 22, 2011 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 3:25 pm 
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Seahorse

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:01 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Richmond, VA
Thanks for the info. I have never heard of an integrated pitot tube like that. You learn something new every day.

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Jim
Richmond, Virginia
2005 Horizon 230 w/ Volvo 5.7GXI Duoprop
Towed by: 2007 Chevy Tahoe 4x4 LTZ
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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 12:41 pm
Posts: 230
Location: West Palm Beach FL
on my 2003 240H I have Bennett tabs (about 9X12-- but I cut them down from another boat I had -- so size is not exact.)
Between the tabs and the drive on one side I have the Lowrance Depthfinder -- and on the other side I have two items --
the Lowrance speed and temperature sender, and the pitot tube for the dash speed indicator (factory)
All of those fit and work together fine.

I would not have a boat on the large water we boat -- Atlantic ocean inshore -- FLorida Keys -- etc, without real trim tabs. They are extremely useful.

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DaleG -- West Palm Beach FL
2003 240Horizon -- 5.7Gi -Duoprop

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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:18 am 
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Seahorse

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:01 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Richmond, VA
For what its worth, Four Winns has a kit available from the dealers with the modified 9x12 Bennett trim tabs. Here's the link and part number:

http://www.fourwinns.net/partbook/showpart.php?pn=065-0382&qty=1.0000&start=06/01/2004&stop=NA%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&mx=1

I just got off an hour long cruise on my boat with six people on board and it has confirmed to me I have to do something. I am extremely frustrated with the ride from this hull. I basically cannot use the trim on my boat without porpoising. We do not use the bow seating area very often and everyone is in the rear seating area of the boat. We also boat in an area where it is rarely flat water. There is always a chop and sometimes swells. I realize that both of these variables are making this problem worse but I just can't believe how bad it is on a 24' hull with a 6000+ lb displacement (boat + crew + equipment).

I am going to call up my local dealer (which is 100 miles away) and see what the pricing is for the custom Bennett tabs but I have a feeling I'll be ordering the standard 9x12 tabs from Overtons or West Marine and modifying them. I will definitely use the matching dash switches like these:

http://www.fourwinns.net/partbook/showpart.php?pn=028-1902&qty=2.0000&start=06/01/2004&stop=NA%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&mx=1

I'll post back once I get them on and tested out. I have to confirm the tabs will clear the speedo pitot tube pickup or else I'll have to move that as well. Hopefully not.

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Jim
Richmond, Virginia
2005 Horizon 230 w/ Volvo 5.7GXI Duoprop
Towed by: 2007 Chevy Tahoe 4x4 LTZ
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 Post subject: Re: Trim Tab feedback
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:09 pm 
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Seahorse

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:01 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Richmond, VA
All right well I did it. I got fed up with the pounding bow and the poor low speed handling and installed 12" x 12" bennett hydraulic trim tabs. WOW! What a huge difference. This was definitely worth the effort but it did take me six hours to pull it off. It is incredible how much difference it makes between tabs full up and full down. I was pulling a tuber at 15 MPH completely on plane at 500 RPM less than it would have taken without the tabs. The best thing is if I want a big wake ( ie: wakeboarding ), four seconds of "Bow Up" button pressing and the wake doubles in size (back to normal). At 35 MPH, with the tabs about 1/4 down and drive trimmed out about half way, the boat feels so much more solid and stable in the chop. Plus the ability to correct for uneven loads is a big bonus.

So here's how I did it:

12" x 12" trim tabs from Overtons or West Marine. West Marine had a better price at the time I was shopping so I got these:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=20038

Two Trim Tab Factory Switches from Four Winns ($18 each and in stock)
http://www.fourwinns.net/partbook/showpart.php?pn=028-1902&qty=2.0000&start=06/01/2004&stop=NA

3M Adhesive/Sealant:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=21501

I ended up going with the stock 12" square tabs from Bennet instead of buying the custom tabs through Four Winns because everything I read said the 12"x9" tabs Four Winns uses are too small for my hull. Plus the Four Winns tabs were four weeks out and the stock Bennetts were in stock.

As a stroke of luck, the 2005 Horizon 230 is factory wired for Bennett trim tabs. For the electrical, all I had to do was plug the switches into the wiring that was tucked away behind the dash. See FW Owners Manual for wiring diagrams. The switches go in the two blank spots to the right of the engine hatch switch and look completely factory. The hydraulic pump unit plugs right into the electrical connector that was tie-wrapped out of the way on the starboard side of the engine compartment. One ground connection to the engine ground stud and finished. It does not get much easier than that.

The mechanical part was much more involved. Firstly, the transom of my boat is clearly not designed for trim tabs. I knew this going into the project but it is worth saying again to warn anyone who might be confused and think this is a drop-in project. Firstly, I had to move my speedometer pickup about two inches closer to the drive to make room for the starboard tab. I then measured the brackets to see how much I was going to have to bend them to match the shape of my transom. I used an abrasive cutting wheel to cut the stainless steel and then used a 1.75" OD steel tube as a mandrel and beat it with a BFH until it matched the shape I needed. There was a lot of beat it with a hammer, test fit, repeat.....

Finally, I tried to follow the Bennett instructions and use a 9/64 pilot hole for the #10 mounting screws. Sheared off two screws with this tactic. Stainless is very brittle. Re-drilled with 5/32 pilot holes and they went in perfectly with my Dewalt impact driver. Don't forget to over bore the gelcoat to eliminate stress cracking and liberally apply a marine sealant to all screws. Mounting the hydraulic rams and doing the plumbing went just like the Bennett Installation Manual said. I temporarily screwed two pieces of scrap lumber to the trailer bunks to help hold the tabs up while I was mounting the rams. I mounted the hydraulic unit just behind the starboard hatch lift motor. It looks completely factory except you can tell the mounting brackets were modified. Oh well. Maybe I'll come up with some kind of a trim to go over the stainless bracket. Probably not.

All in all, it was a good project with very good results. Much happier now with my boat's performance. For $500 and six hours of work, it was well worth it.

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Jim
Richmond, Virginia
2005 Horizon 230 w/ Volvo 5.7GXI Duoprop
Towed by: 2007 Chevy Tahoe 4x4 LTZ
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