www.iFourWinns.com

Hi everyone. I cant help but notice that my engine really shakes when it idles. I had it tuned up..plugs..timing etc. I was hoping it would help it smooth out. Any other suggestions?

If you had it tuned up, what did the dealer say about?

Is the idle too low?

There aren't too many OB guys on this site.

I'm one of them....so I'll give it a shot...

The OMC V4 is probably one of the most popular motors made in that HP range. That being said they aren't the smoothest running machine. It will wiggle a little bit at idle no matter how well it runs.

Here are things to check:

Idle speed: This should be something that was looked at if you had it tuned up at a shop. I'm not sure what the RPM range is right off the top of my head. It should proably be somewhere around 800-900 RPM.

Link and Sync: Both carbs need to be tuned correctly so they open/close in sync with each other. If one carb is open more than the other you can get some funny behavior

Spark/Ignition: If the shop checked/set the timing I would hope they checked to make sure you had a strong spark on each cylinder, however, if you are getting a weak spark on one cylinder that could cause some roughness at idle.

Oil: What are you using for oil? You need to confirm you have a good high grade 2-stroke outboard oil. I actually would say you are best off sticking with the BRP XD-30 (red) and making sure that you have your resevoir filled. You should also have the shop check to make sure your oil pump is working well and that it is putting the correct amount of oil into the mix. Using a lower grade oil or even a higher grade (synthetic) oil can cause the motor to run abnormally.

Fuel: Do you have a fuel/water seperating filter? If not you should probably install one. You should check that you don't have water in the fuel and make sure that you don't have debris in the fuel line. Also, with ethanol now common you need to make sure your motor has alchohol resistant components in the fuel system.

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Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

Thanks for the input. What does the term OMC mean? I took it to a johnson service center hoping they would know best. I do have the fuel in there from last season and had a stabilizer in it, but want to get some fresh fuel in it. I plan on running a cleaner through it in the next tank as well. It doesnt have a waterfuel seperator on it, but yes i want to install one. I did manage to take it out for a spin last weekend and the best I could manage was 40 mph with 2 adults and 2 kids in it.

OMC = Outboard Marine Corporation. This is the company that was parent to Evinrude and Johnson and OMC sterndrives. Johnson and Evinrudes were essentially twins. The reason I referred to your motor as an OMC was to make a point that whether it be a Johnson or an Evinrude you can get is serviced by anyone that has appropriate experience with the motors.

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Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

So, as a new Four Winns owner, I will also be one of the few with a Johnson 130 outboard.

We just purchased a '99 180 Horizon / '99 130hp Johnson with the Fisherman Package.

When we bought the boat this past Tuesday, it was run out of the water and the engine idled fine for over 10 minutes. It idled fine last night for a few minutes. Took it to the lake this morning, and (aside from battery issues) it ran ok just of the trailer. But as I was getting back to the dock to pick up my wife and kid, it stalled while idling up and never would idle again after that. All the previous run rimes, it ran pretty smooth also.

A little background on the motor. It had been sitting for over a month at the lot where we bought it from. How long it sat before that, I do not know (PO was selling due to DWI).
I have a receipt for work done one month ago:
- R&R carbs - disassemble & check
- check reed valves
- diagnose ignition system
- replace power pack
- replace spark plugs
- test/replace timer assembly
- test run

Now this work was supposedly performed by some type of mobile mechanic of sorts. Either way I guess it doesn't matter since he would be more than a 5 hour drive away anyway.

Everything on the engine looks very clean. But I can't get it to idle smoothly anymore. I have gotten it to run now (better than what we had at the lake - had to be towed back in), but the idle is erractic and it will eventually die. In neutral, I can get it to stay running, but I have to keep it at a higher rpm and it is still erractic at best.

The fuel gauge showed approximately 1/4 tank when we bought it and we put 15 gallons of fresh fuel in today. The plugs were pulled this afternoon and were very black - I thought fouled. I replaced them and within a few minutes of this erractic running, the new ones were black also. Not wet, but black and sooty. I have replaced the inline fuel filter. I do not have a water fuel separator that I know of.

I spent the better part of this evening trying to keep the motor running. It seems to be running slightly better better as time goes on. I'm thinking there may have been a little water in the fuel initially (I drained the carb bowls once we got home and it looked like some water was in them).

I was told by a shop today to run the motor off an external fuel source to try and see if it really is the tank, and I was going to but I can't get the fuel line disconnected from the tank to try this. I could set something up to plug in straight to the carbs, but I have no way to prime the fuel.

All in all, I think the motor will run great if it will just clear its throat some (so to speak). I am very mechanically inclined and have no worries about working on this motor, but I have no manuals and very little outboard experience. I do however have extensive 2-stroke experience with motorcycles and Seadoo's.

So now for a couple of quick questions, is there anything special I should know about the carbs? Basic idle adjustments? What to adjust, what not to adjust? Is there anything you might susggest for me to try in the meantime?

On a side note, I need to keep all experiment costs to a minimum. I have already spent all my boat fund money and I don't have a large income to throw at it right now. My labor is free, but additional parts are not.

Our plan right now is to head back out to the lake tomorrow and get it out on the water and run it at speed for as long as we can in the hopes it will clear it up some. The more I ran it here at home today, the better it got, although slowly.

All hints, suggestions and ideas are welcome....

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1999 180 Horizon OB Fisherman Pkg
2013 Grand Cherokee 4x4 w/ 5.7 Hemi
San Antonio, TX

Kmack,

Welcome to the forum.

These OB powered Four Winns are great boats. My 2004 would be the same basic boat as yours. Great boats.

I'll get into more detail about you motor later today. I think your motor is actually quite diferent than the 1996 that nwrunr has. I think his would be the last of the 90 degree V-4s and yours is a 60 degree V-4.

_________________
Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

I never got back to this yesterday.

Kmack,

It sounds like you could have multiple issues going on.

It is important to note that a motor will always run different on a hose in the driveway than it will under load in the lake. You didn't mention how you were getting water to the motor while you were running it "out of the water". Did you have it hooked to muffs and a hose or did you have it in a large tube of water?

These 2-strokes need good exhaust backpressure to really evaluate how they are running. The only way to get proper backpressure is to have the lower unit fully submerged in water at least up to the anti-vent plate. The main exhaust is through the hub of the prop.

If you haven't already found iboats, take a look here: http://forums.iboats.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24

Don't be alarmed by the number of posts in that section of the forum. The Johnson and Evinrude brands are very popular and there are millions of them out there. You will find the people on iboats to be very helpful in getting your problems solved.

Sometimes a rough idle can be as simple as the motor just needs to get up and run to clean it out. Other times it can be a pretty involved trial and error sort of approach.

I can fully understand the budget being tight and not wanting to spend good money after bad to try and get the motor running right.

Where are you located? That may help with what should be reccomended. Are you in saltwater? Was the motor winterized? When was the water pump changed last?

_________________
Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

I had it hooked to muffs in the driveway.



That's what I was thinking as that has been the case with the few 2-stroke motorcycles I used to have. I could get it to run in neutral at higher rpm's and I was thinking if I could just get it into gear and up to speed, then it might clear itself out.



I live in San Antonio, Tx and will run it in fresh water. The boat came from Granbury, Tx (SW of Fort Worth) and to my knowledge has only been in fresh water. I doubt it had been winterized, but doesn't all the water run out of an outboard when it is pulled out of the water? The water pump impeller was supposedly replaced in the last month.

We took it to Medina Lake yesterday and tried running it again. Idled fine on the trailer when we first put in the water. Idled for about 4-5 minutes. I told my wife to unhook me and I backed it off the trailer in reverse and went a couple hundred yards in reverse with no problems (wind was blowing pretty hard and I wanted to make sure I was far away from the shore line just in case). Went to engage forward, and it stalled. Same old problems after that.

We got fed-up leaving the launch and stopped in at a local shop that happened to be open. I have heard a few good things about this place and we ended up leaving it there for them to diagnose the issue(s). We both agreed I could easily spend more than $125 (the diagnosing fee) chasing my tail trying to figure out what was wrong. Not to mention the time it would take. At least this way, we will have someone knowledgable (with outboards) looking at it and I can spend my time getting our Seadoo's ready to sell.

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1999 180 Horizon OB Fisherman Pkg
2013 Grand Cherokee 4x4 w/ 5.7 Hemi
San Antonio, TX

Kmack,

Thanks for the follow up. It is probably a good call on letting the shop diagnose the problem. Hopefully it is something simple.

Good luck.

_________________
Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

For sure, you need a water separating fuel filter, they sell the kits at West Marine and other places, and the bases come in OMC and Merc sizes (they are different) as well as a size sold by Racor, who makes the filters with the bowl on the bottom to drain the water out. Racors also come in Merc and OMC base sizes as well, and they are generally recognized as the best marine fuel filters out there. I use an aftermarket Sierra filter that fits on my standard OMC base and works fine. When you remove one of these (they are about the size of an oil filter) if you have a glass jar of the right size you can pour out the gas and let it sit. Then look for a layer of water on the bottom. If you find that, then the gas tank should be cleaned out.

It's a good idea to get the engine gone through by a good mechanic, even though is money spent, at least you know the engine is set up right and you can use it without worrying about getting stuck. When I first had my 88 FW 4.3 Cobra, I had a running problem (would not get on plane) and I went through the ignition system (OK) carb, (looked OK) and then ran out of ideas. Took it to a good shop, they rebuilt the carb (little water in it) and replaced the anti-siphon valve (stuck restricted fuel flow). With 2 strokes its especially important to get the carb set up right because if the engine runs lean you can burn a piston. Also you want to make sure the VRO (variable ratio oiler, or oil injection) is working right, this is critical to the health of the engine.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

RotaryRacer,
Thanks for the link to iBoats.com. Looks like lots of great stuff for the DIY'er. I've got it bookmarked.

Will keep you posted as to the outcome of the motor when I hear something back from the shop.

_________________
1999 180 Horizon OB Fisherman Pkg
2013 Grand Cherokee 4x4 w/ 5.7 Hemi
San Antonio, TX

Well, we still don't have the boat back from the shop yet, but I spoke with them today to get an update.

They drained the tank and got quite a bit of trash and some water out of it. Using an electric pump, they claim they got 99% of it out. I will be looking to get a water/fuel separator installed asap.

They have checked the compression of all 4 cylinders and they came in at 135 psi (+/- 2 psi across all 4). So that looks good.

They pressure checked the VRO pump and said that it is working to spec right now. Later this year, I may just bite the bullet and buy a new one from Johnson/Evinrude so I won't have any issues later.

They did notice that the carb gaskets appeared to be "hanging" inside of the carb throats (looks like they weren't seated properly when the carbs were worked on last). So they are ordering new gasket kits and those will be installed this week. Based on this alone I can now see how the idle would fluctuate all over the place. The improperly seated gaskets could be letting the carbs suck air.

The mechanic (25 years running his shop in same location) did say that he firmly believes this motor to have less than 100 hours on it based on his rummaging thru everything so far. "It's too clean to have much more hours than that," he said. While I do know there is no hour meter onboard, I would like to believe him having seen it for myself. I can dream at least.

So for now, he is saying we will have the boat ready this weekend to go play on the lake. We're keeping our finger crossed...

He also said that he recommends using a premium fuel in these out outboards (something above 87 octane). Anybody have any views on this? Also, I'm questioning whether the prop we have on it now is right...I have an aluminum 14.5 x 19, 3-blade on there. Is that going to be good for this motor? I know I need to check WOT, but until we get the boat back, I won't know for sure.

_________________
1999 180 Horizon OB Fisherman Pkg
2013 Grand Cherokee 4x4 w/ 5.7 Hemi
San Antonio, TX

Well....here's the latest update on our boating progress....

We finally got the boat back in our hands this past Sunday. Shop finished it up and got it running too late on Saturday to be able to do anything, but since he is open on Sundays, we were able to pick it up and head to the lake for about 4 hours. It finally runs great and we had an awesome time.

Here's what we ended up having done:
- drain/clean fuel tank - replace with fresh fuel
- compression test on all cylinders
- replace all carb gaskets
- replace VRO pump
- ended up replacing all four carb bodies

For some reason, the VRO ended up not pumping like it should. You could prime the fuel system and the engine would run for about a minute, then shut off like it ran out of fuel. Pump the bulb and you would hear a click in the VRO pump. Engine would run again for about a minute, then shut off again. So we put an brand new VRO pump in it.

At this point, it would run for a few minutes (up to about 10 minutes at the most), then it would sort of pop and back fire real quick and immediately shut down. It would fire back up and run again, then the same thing would happen...pop, back fire and shut down. The mechanic started thinking it was the power pac or the timing base, but I had receipts saying those had been replaced back in March. Eventually, he had another mechanic take a look at it and the first thing he looked at were the carbs. Turns out there is a set of fuel passages on the side of the carb bodies that has a gasket and a cover plate with 5 screws holding it. And the screws were not put back into the original threads when tightened and while trying to make new threads, ended up cracking the carbs bodies (gotta love stuff made out of plastic!).

So, since my guy could not verify if he did it, or the other guy (commissioned by previous owner) did it, he replaced the carbs for me on his dime. Turns out, that Johnson/Evinrude doesn't sell these carbs any more and there were very few of them available across the country (like 6 total).

Anyway, the boat is running great. We spent more money on it than we originally planned, but we have it now for this coming weekend and we are definitely going to help contribute to the economy and the burning of fossil fuels!

_________________
1999 180 Horizon OB Fisherman Pkg
2013 Grand Cherokee 4x4 w/ 5.7 Hemi
San Antonio, TX