www.iFourWinns.com

Attempted DIY winterizing for the first time this afternoon. Thanks to all the great posts on here and my Seloc manual I feel pretty confident that I did it correctly but I do have 2 quick questions. For reference the boat is a 2008 H200SS w/ the 5.7L Gi and a VP SX-A drive.

1) I have seen a couple posts talking about the need to drain a "power steering cooler". I looked around for quite a while but could not find said object, not to mention a way to drain it through a plug or hose. I did drain the engine using 4 drain plugs (2 block and 2 manifold) and also removed and drained just about any hose I could find (2 water pump, 3 at the TStat, also a bypass that went into the port manifold). I am hoping that this is good enough, but if not I would like to remedy the situation before I put her to sleep for the winter.

2) I did use the drain and then backfill w/ RV antifreeze method. I could not find a post that talked specifically about which hose to backfill from, so I used my best judgment and filled her up via the largest hose removed at the TStat that appeared to head into the block. She took about 2.5 gallons I would say before pink started coming out of the TStat fitting. Is this the correct method? I thought that I had read somewhere that you should fill her up until pink comes out the exhaust on the drive but this did not happen for me. Is there another place to backfill from?

Thanks in advance for any advice so that I can have some good piece of mind going into the winter that I won't have an expensive mistake next spring.

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2008 H200SS w/ 5.7L VP Gi
2009 GMC Yukon

Former Boat:
2008 H180 w/ 3.0L VP

I am not sure if you have one, but if you used muffs or the (I will say) intake hose and let the engine suck in the antifreeze. Than you should be all set, but it sound like you drained it. The antifreeze should have done into the drive, block and plus ever thing else. There should have been no need to remove the t-stat.

It sound like you did get all the water out of the block & manifolds, but did you drain the raw water pump.

If you run the engine & it suck in the pink stuff untill it comed out the drive, than you have removed all the water. The 2nd thing too is, the pink stull will be better than air in your engine. It will slow down any rust that is trying to form. This is one good reason to have a closed system, air and raw water never get in.

Keep in mind I have never had a Volvo but here's what I do, you did the engine right as long as you poked the drain holes when you drained it because rust flakes can block drain holes. If you want to fill the manifolds, you drain em of water first, then disconnect the hose that goes to each manifold at the thermo housing, put a funnel in the hose and fill it till you hear AF run out on the ground.

There is a hose that goes from the impeller housing to the transom, the p/s cooler should be in line with that (often they are hidden on the back of the engine, thats were mine is). I disconnect that hose, point it down in the bilge to drain it and then fill it with AF till the AF runs out the water intakes on the drive, that will push out the remaining water. The cooler does have a drain plug on it usually but they can be hard to reach. I have held the hose down and also removed the plug and I have found that on my engine at least draining the hose does drain the cooler, but it depends on if you can get the hose lower than the cooler.

The impeller housing, I'd make sure that you remove the hoses one at a time to make sure all the water drains out. I like using AF because it keeps out air and has corrosion inhibitors, but backfilling is the only safe way to do it.

Do not be tempted into using the winterizing tanks that use the suck water up the drive method, that can result in a cracked block if not done exactly right. The problem with that method, is that the thermostat must open all the way, to let the raw water out of the block so AF can get IN. If you run the boat on a water hose on a cool day, with 50 degree cold water coming in and no load on the engine guess what, the thermo won't open all the way. If you drain the block first, or remove the thermo, this method can work but for me if I am going to drain it anyway, why bother with the suck up AF method. Do it the way the manual says, no I/O manufacturer advises that you use the suck up the AF method, this is a shortcut to save time but if not done exactly right you will be sorry....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I drain my engine and backfill with it with the pink anti-freeze.

This is a good video that shows you how to do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bxpqmT1 ... re=related

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2008 FW F204 - 5.0 VP "Stand On It"
Former Boat: Larson 186 LXI - 4.3 VP

Thanks for all the advice! I did remove both hoses at the water pump, but I will definitely go back and remove the long hose that Lou was talking about and backfill from there. Just to be clear, this would be the "intake" hose at the impeller? That would make sense to me, should have thought of it while I was going through it the first time. I can definitely attest to the need for clearing out the drains. After pulling the block plugs on both sides, hardly any water came out. Poked around with a coat hanger for a bit and still nothing, almost decided that it had been drained through a hose (remember I am a first time DIY winterizer!); however, I gave both sides another little jab with the stick and out poured a couple gallons of water... VERY lucky that I had read this board!

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2008 H200SS w/ 5.7L VP Gi
2009 GMC Yukon

Former Boat:
2008 H180 w/ 3.0L VP

Thats how I do it.

Remove all hoses from impeller housing and open up all four drain plugs. Bump the starter to get all the water out of the impeller housing, and then hook it back up. Fill up with pink RV antifreeze via the hoses you remove from thermostat housing.

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2007 358 T-5.7GXi IB
Previous Boats
'08 H240, '08 V318, '04 268, '04 225

I am tiring to understand!! I have always owned a Mer. with a closed system which means that you don't need to drain the block. (and this boat too V258) Two different dealers have told me the same thing, (for open & closed systems) that is. As long as for run the AF though the engine (by the drive or Volvos's intake house) you do not need to do anything else. This will drive the water out and leave the AF in in the engine and out drive.

Why would this do/result "Do not be tempted into using the winterizing tanks that use the suck water up the drive method, that can result in a cracked block..." The 2 pumps should take the AF and pass it though everything in the system. No?? As it would if you were in the ocean/lake on a day out.

In the past, I have always drained every thing too! But, the 2 dealers said basically, nothing wrong in doing that, it is more work. They let the engine suck in the AF and your done. I understand back filling it & agree with it, thats one reason way I have a closed system.

Lou, can you please explain?

Paul, I'll see if I can explain it before Lou comments.

For any engine cooling system the thermostat is closed when the engine is cold (below t-stat opening temp). This means that the water circulates inside the block due to the engine water pump. In a car this is not big deal because the entire system is filled with A/F. On a boat with closed cooling, not a big deal either because the engine is filled with A/F. Only the sea water pump and heat exchanger have sea water (I'm calling all water sea water, it could be salt or fresh)

On a non-closed cooling system, this means that the water in the engine circulates to get warm. Any new water supplied by the sea-water pump does not enter the engine, it goes via the bypass to the mainfolds and risers and out the exhaust. Once the water inside the engine block warms up, the t-stat opens (which also closes the bypass). The water supplied by the sea-water pump begins to enter the block, then goes out to the manifolds and risers and exhaust.

So, if you try to suck up the A/F via the outdrive, it won't actually go into the block unless the water in the block is up to temp and opens the t-stat and closes the bypass. Many people don't understand this and may not wait long enough to get the engine up to temp before sucking up the A/F. If it isn't up to temp, the A/F only goes into the manifolds and risers while the engine block is still filled with sea water.

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Terry
Current: 07 Crownline 255 CCR cuddy - 350 Mag MPI/B3 "Casi Cielo"

Previous:97 245 Sundowner 5.7GI/SX

Tow vehicle: 1986 GMC 2500 Camper Special 454/TH400

I see said the blind man!!! I did not THINK of that, (I should know better) the t-stat needs to open first. So the engine FIRST needs to be brought up to temp before it opens and let the AF in. So you might be guessing if it was open or not. If you were to do it that way.

I have always had a closed system, so for me, it does not matter and never give it a thought.

THANK YOU!!

OK keep in mind, I am saying this in relation to a raw water cooled (open system, no heat exchanger) engine. The issue is that if you run it on the water hose on a cool fall day, the engine may not get hot enough to cause the thermostat to open fully long enough to let the raw water out of the engine to be replaced with antifreeze. The AF will go straight into the manifolds and out the exhaust, but until the thermostat opens, there will still be raw water in the block/heads. Which will then freeze and crack the block/heads.

With a closed cooling system, this method can be used because there is no issue with the thermostat. Some people will remove the thermostat, or drain the engine first to use this method. For me I'd rather just drain it, and then back fill the engine and manifolds through the hoses, safer, uses less AF, no risk to burning the impeller if it does not pull in the AF easily, and no freeze damage risk most important of all. This method is VERY risky with an raw water cooled engine. Can you tell for sure when your thermostat opens, if you don't have an IR temp gun, I bet you can't. And even then, it has to stay open long enough, to let the water out of the block...

The dealers are giving BAD advice, they do it that way, but they sometimes use a big trough, that they submerge the drive in full of AF. This gets heated by the engine, and because of that, the thermostat will open and stay open long enough to get the engine full of AF. Since the AF is re-circulated, it stays hot, or probably at least 80-90
degrees. Thats how they winterize many boats in one day. The water from your water hose is quite cold by comparison. That keeps the thermo from opening, and traps raw water in the engine....

Make sense??

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Thank you Lou. Mr.97_45 made sence to me. They have always told me to do it that way. My first 5 years I would always drain eveything and back full it. There piont was, if I did it there way, I would remove more air than back filling it with out removing the hoses. Like I use to do. I have always had a closed system, so for me, what the told me was correct. I do not need to have the engine warmed up.

My big thing too is, I do not want sea/lake water going though the block and its much easyer to winterize. Again, I was not using my head when it came to a open system.

Thanks!!!

Having the sunsport seating, it always ends up being a lot of work to remove the hoses off the raw water pump. I typically drain the block and manifolds first, then run 1-2 gallons of pink antifreeze through the drive, and finally drain again and back fill the block and manifolds. This should be draining and filling the power steering cooler correct?

Not sure if anyone else uses this method, but I find it much easier than attempting to get those hoses off the raw water pump with the back seat in the way.

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2001 190 Horizon
Volvo Penta SX - 5.0GL
\t

Lou. or Mr.97_45 is better than I at this, but I would like them to correct me if I am wrong!! I just want to see if my train of thought is right.To answer your question, it would be "YES" BUT you need to let the engine warm up to let the T-stat open up. Once the t-stat opens, on a open cooling system, the AF will go though the "complete" cooling system. In my case, a closed system, I am not sure on which side the power steering cooler is on. I would think it is on the raw water side. Or in the case of an open system, I think it would not matter if the t-stat is open or not for the AF to flow though it. But, you would want it open in any case.

Paul, thats what my thinking always has been, since I think the cooler is on the raw water side, meaning that everything should be cleared up to/past the thermostat depending on how wide it is opened. Then by manually draining the block, I figure that everything should be empty.

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2001 190 Horizon
Volvo Penta SX - 5.0GL
\t

Yep the p/s cooler is on the raw water side...
the issue with using muffs to run AF into a raw water cooled engine is that the block is full of water when you start, unless you drained it first. So the engine idles, it barely hits 160 degrees and the stat starts to open, the engine then starts to cool off, the stat closes, etc and this can continue unless its a warm day out. So the point is, that the thermostat may not stay open long enough to let all the raw water out of the block, you will have no idea how strong your AF concentration is, unless you test it. And keep in mind, an AF tester for ethelyene glycol does not work on propylene glycol, they are different. The only thing you can do is take a sample from each engine drain and put it in the freezer and see what happens...
Much safer to do as I say....drain n back fill....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II