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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:04 am 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
ric wrote:
Same exact engine. Volvo tunes the carbs for all situations (weather, altitude) so they're only 190hp. Since the FI self adjusts it's tuned tighter hence the 220hp. They're both capable of the same HP output, it's just if you go tighter on the carb and have it set for your location like 50ft above sea level here in FL and bring the boat to a lake where it's 1000ft above sea level... you'll have running issues. The fuel injection boat will not it will make it's own adjustments.


Do Marine ECU's not have closed loop (utilising O2 sensor) and open loop (fixed table based fuel/ timing mapping) fuelling, like an automotive ECU? :?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:34 am 
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some do.

Marine exhaust isn't as bad as you think. Look at the 5.0Gxi. 270hp. That same engine in a car made 140 :)

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1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:56 am 
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ric wrote:
some do.

Marine exhaust isn't as bad as you think. Look at the 5.0Gxi. 270hp. That same engine in a car made 140 :)

140?
Maybe if it was running on 4 to 6 of its cyclinders.
all specs on a 5.0l vortec are no less than 220 at the crank

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:14 am 
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neutron wrote:
ric wrote:
some do.

Marine exhaust isn't as bad as you think. Look at the 5.0Gxi. 270hp. That same engine in a car made 140 :)

140?
Maybe if it was running on 4 to 6 of its cyclinders.
all specs on a 5.0l vortec are no less than 220 at the crank


Yes but just like boats, you don't test cars at the crank. They're tested at the prop shaft/wheels. 270 at the prop means it's doing at least 300 at the crank. For an old GM 305 that's awesome! Ya gotta remember the 305 is the least performance engine GM ever built for a v8. Aside from maybe the 307. Marine exhaust ain't THAT bad.

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1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:22 am 
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 1:35 pm
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Location: Wylie tx.
Thanks Ric I will be ordering the 2114 next week. I thought the was the right one but was not sure.. Good luck with all your mods


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:33 am 
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Vortec is 12 bolt intake, the older style is less. Plus the valve covers should say vortec. I'm jealous I wish I could accomplish this task right now but priority is actually getting the trim to work. It's cool too Edelbrock put in the extra bolt holes needed by marine accessories. I'm pretty sure GM Performance Parts makes an intake also, but I doubt it's any better/cheaper then Edelbrock. Which carb are you going with? Make sure you do vacuum secondaries.

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1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:38 am 
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whenever a manufacturer posts Engine HP/torque figures its at the crank same with Volvo. The reasoning for them is for a marketing point ,so they give you the "inflated" number. Itr always has been that way. same with motorcycles and pretty much anything with an engine.
If you call Volvo or Mercruser and get the right person on the line they will confirm this

I am not trying to get in some pissing match but I know this stuff for a fact. I work in this buisness. and do plenty of training to be updated with facts.
I live, eat, and sleep engines of all kinds. And I am great at what I do.

_________________
"Changes In Latitudes, Changes In Attitudes "
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1996 238 Vista dlx "Casper's Toy Too"
2006 5.0GXI w/closed cooling, DP-sm 1.95 drive
Previous boat:
1998 Sundowner 205


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:47 am 
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neutron wrote:
whenever a manufacturer posts Engine HP/torque figures its at the crank same with Volvo. The reasoning for them is for a marketing point ,so they give you the "inflated" number. Itr always has been that way. same with motorcycles and pretty much anything with an engine.
If you call Volvo or Mercruser and get the right person on the line they will confirm this

I am not trying to get in some pissing match but I know this stuff for a fact. I work in this buisness. and do plenty of training to be updated with facts.
I live, eat, and sleep engines of all kinds. And I am great at what I do.


They passed a ruling or law a few years ago. All marine engines (outboard, sterndrive, inboard) HP ratings are all at the prop.

_________________
1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:37 pm 
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Location: Lower Trent Ontario, Canada
ric wrote:
neutron wrote:
whenever a manufacturer posts Engine HP/torque figures its at the crank same with Volvo. The reasoning for them is for a marketing point ,so they give you the "inflated" number. Itr always has been that way. same with motorcycles and pretty much anything with an engine.
If you call Volvo or Mercruser and get the right person on the line they will confirm this

I am not trying to get in some pissing match but I know this stuff for a fact. I work in this buisness. and do plenty of training to be updated with facts.
I live, eat, and sleep engines of all kinds. And I am great at what I do.


They passed a ruling or law a few years ago. All marine engines (outboard, sterndrive, inboard) HP ratings are all at the prop.

Since drives don't have a reduction ratio that I'm aware of, whereas all vehicles final drives are reduction, how can these HP ratings that you come up with even compare Ric?

Advertised HP ratings are measured by an engine brake dynomometer at the crank, period.

As for that 275 you expect, aint gonna happen with your list. You have to understand that when the performance companies say their parts will add up to so much HP, the key operative words are "will add up to", nothing more. So when they say, it will add up to 30 HP, realistically, you might get 10. They only way you'd get that 30 HP would be if the rest of the engine was radical, tested at sea level with perfect barometric pressure, humidity and so on. Bolt on HP as advertised and what you REALLY get are two very different things, period.

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95 278 Vista,
And a lot of others.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:47 pm 
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I'll find the law that was passed, but all boat/engine HP ratings are at the prop shaft, not crank shaft.

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1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:04 pm 
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ric wrote:
I'll find the law that was passed, but all boat/engine HP ratings are at the prop shaft, not crank shaft.


If you'd be so kind, please include the formula for correction of the drive ratio.

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07 Azure AZ200,
Previous boat,
95 278 Vista,
And a lot of others.

Ontario, Canada


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:10 pm 
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Winter Sux wrote:
ric wrote:
I'll find the law that was passed, but all boat/engine HP ratings are at the prop shaft, not crank shaft.


If you'd be so kind, please include the formula for correction of the drive ratio.


The gear ratio doesn't matter, it's an average of 15=20% loss to the prop. The ruling for prop rating not crank rating was WAYYY back in 1982 so gimme some time to find the exact verbiage.

_________________
1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold

Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:31 pm 
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The gear ratio doesn't matter?????

Oh brother!

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07 Azure AZ200,
Previous boat,
95 278 Vista,
And a lot of others.

Ontario, Canada


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:27 pm 
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what has me confused is that if you were to buy and engine from VP it shows a specific hp rating,The rating is for the engine alone. VP doesnt know what drive,pod or prop shaft you are going to use. I am sure all would give a differnt prop hp rating.

_________________
"Changes In Latitudes, Changes In Attitudes "
Image
1996 238 Vista dlx "Casper's Toy Too"
2006 5.0GXI w/closed cooling, DP-sm 1.95 drive
Previous boat:
1998 Sundowner 205


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:51 pm 
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What if you flip the air breather like on the old 350`s...one thing for sure is ric will be at sea level.

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