Water in the Crank Case... Doh!

cdig · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:05 am **Posts:** 72

I'm afraid my lack of boat experience is showing... I forgot to put the shifter back to neutral after taking the drive unit off :oops:

NiagaraChillin · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:49 pm

cdig wrote:

That and a 6 pack of beer is all I got done tonigt

Maybe that had sumtin to do with it? LOL...

Seriously tho (well maybe not), don't ya just love when you forget something that simple...

cdig · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:05 am **Posts:** 72

Yep, it's a forehead slapper!

So I just had a thought... before I go putting clean oil and filter in it and doing a compression test, what if I pull all the spark plugs and the oil pan drain plug, attach a garden hose to the water intake hose, and see if I get water coming out the spark plug holes or oil pan? Likely have to pull out the t-stat too so water will go to the exhaust manifolds, but this would for sure tell me if I have a cracked block or bad exhaust manifolds, or even a bad head gasket no? Thoughts?

NiagaraChillin · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:57 pm

Problem with that idea is that since the engine won't be running, the waterpump won't push water into the engine to be circulated (under pressure) into the areas you want to check for leaks.

cdig · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:05 am **Posts:** 72

Water pump just circulates the water tho, it's not going to block water that's already moving... right?

ric · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:13 pm

cdig wrote:

Water pump just circulates the water tho, it's not going to block water that's already moving... right?

block? no, but water won't circulate through the heads and much sooner then later they'll warp

cdig · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:05 am **Posts:** 72

Warp? I'm talking about doing this with the spark plugs out, the engine will be off, so no heat will be generated... or am I misunderstanding?

ric · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:23 pm

cdig wrote:

Warp? I'm talking about doing this with the spark plugs out, the engine will be off, so no heat will be generated... or am I misunderstanding?

Oh, you're fine then.

NiagaraChillin · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:27 pm

cdig wrote:

Water pump just circulates the water tho, it's not going to block water that's already moving... right?

Thats the problem, the water won't be moving because the pump won't be either. Water from a hose doesn't have sufficient pressure to circulate through the block, heads, manifolds, etc. It "may" eventually get there just by virtue of volume, but it won't give you an accurate read on any potential leaks.

LouC · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:29 pm

What this will tell you, is if the riser/manifold gasket leaks or the risers/manifolds are rotted out causing water to get in the exhaust passage and get into the cylinders. Actually, it's not a bad idea, here's how I would do it. Take all the plugs out so the engine is easy to turn over with a socket on the nut in the middle of the crank pulley. Then, disconnect the hose that goes to one of the manifolds and disconnect it at the thermo housing. Next, rig up an adaptor (pvc pipe, copper water hose, etc) that will fit inside the manifold hose and clamp that to your garden hose (you can use a short length of hose to make an adaptor). Hook up the hose and turn on the water, it does not have to be full blast. Then turn the engine over (clockwise) so you can simulate it going through the 4 cycles. If the exhaust parts are bad it will be obvious. Do the same with the other cylinder bank. If you get water from the exhaust that might be good news, but the engine could still be cracked inside if they let it freeze. If you get no water from the exhaust, then it goes back to a bad HG, freeze cracked engine or bad intake manifold gaskets. If you got water, and were going to replace this engine with an exact replacement that this exhaust would fit, you could buy new exhaust parts and repeat the test. If its good and no water in the oil, then it was a failed exhaust that put water in the cylinders. If not and you still get water, you gotta get another engine, and you needed a new exhaust system anyway.

Graham R · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:39 pm

Not wishing to be negative at all, but if there's so much water, even fresh water in the sump (oil pan) isn't it very likely that there's corrosion? Maybe not enough for the engine to seize, but certainly enough for the valves not to seat properly ?

cdig · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:05 am **Posts:** 72

Graham R wrote:

Not wishing to be negative at all, but if there's so much water, even fresh water in the sump (oil pan) isn't it very likely that there's corrosion? Maybe not enough for the engine to seize, but certainly enough for the valves not to seat properly ?

We shall see I guess! I don't have anything to lose by trying, and if it runs fine for a season or two ill flip it and buy something else.

Progress tonight, tested the exhaust manifolds, doesn't appear to be any drain back to the cylinders on either side. So we're back to cracked block/hd gasket/intake... Or just plain sunk in the water. Got all the sludge drained out of it and filled with fresh oil, hopefully get it fired up tomorrow night. Ill try to remember to get video... Wish me luck!

rpengr · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:32 pm

cdig wrote:

Water pump just circulates the water tho, it's not going to block water that's already moving... right?

You are right that one water pump just circulates the water, and your garden hose flow can easily pass through it. However, the other water pump, the "raw water pump" will not let much water through it if it is not rotating, due to the rubber impeller design.

You could try your idea by first using LouC's idea for isolating each manifold first. Then do the same thing to flow water through the block. Do this by disconnecting the hose that goes from the raw water pump to the thermostat housing. Disconect it at the pump end, and connect your hose there to go into the engine. You do not need to remove the thermostat: The Thermostat blocks water flow from coming OUT of the block...does not block water from going in.

If you succeed with this test, and get water, but still cannot tell if it is from the exhaust manifolds or the block, then try again with the exhaust manifolds removed.

cdig · **Joined:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:05 am **Posts:** 72

Well, I don't have good news to report... While i was able to get it to fire up if I keep putting gas in the carb (I suspect the fuel pump is shot), after running it like that for a minute I checked the oil and found alot of water on the dipstick again. I think it's time to admit defeat and pull the engine for further investigation.

jvthundercat · **Posted:** Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am

cdig wrote:

I forgot to mention something... last night while I was taking the stern drive off, I found a big plastic plug sitting in the exhaust port! Still has a Part number on it, 3853864? looks like the remnants of some sort of plastic plug, almost the size of a hockey puck? I’m thinking this could be the source of the problem, if it plugged the exhaust port enough to make the engine overheat, and either crack/warp the heads or blow a head gasket at the very least? Still doesn’t explain why the cylinders were full of water tho. I’m going to go further in troubleshooting before I rip the motor out.

I pull them and go through them because it's fun! But, with the finding of the plug, I would do just a few things first before diving in.
Pull all of the plugs with new oil in it. Spray PB Blaster in each cylinder, let soak for about an hour. Spray a lot of WD-40 in each one and turn it over. Clean up mess and repeat the WD-40 one more time. You are trying to do two things, clean out the rust and lube it enough not to add to the damage. After you clean that all up, and it will blow crap out everywhere so lay some paper shop towels down. Make sure your battery is fully charged. Have somone hold the key on to turn it over and dump Seafoam down it's throat. Let that soak until the next day. You can at this time put the plugs back in it and fire it up. If it's a cracked block or heads, it is already damaged enough that you don't care or want to use any of the long block. If no water, put it all back together, new oil and filter again and run it on muffs for at least an hour with running up the RPM every 10 minutes or so to 2200-3000 rpm for at least 30 seconds. Then take it to the dock and idle it with a few rev's until it get's to operating temp.
Shut it down to see if you have anything in the oil. If so it was worth a try and maybe less than 100 bucks. Then decide how you are going to replace it.
As far as pulling it. Make life easy on yourself. Strip it down to a short block, pull the drive and go to the nearest equipment rental place. Either bring a case of beer, or pay them an hour for a bucket lift vehicle, loader or whatever they have and pull it out.
Same goes for putting it in, but in long block form.

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Water in the Crank Case... Doh!

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