www.iFourWinns.com

Almost 2 full seasons witht he 318.... hardly a thing to complain about.

One are which we have not been pleased is the quality of fitment of the 5 peice canvas windshield connector. It's sagged, had ripples, prone to defrost issues, and barely kept water out. Looking at similar canvas jobs from other companies out there -- FW could stand to take a lesson.

FW pays the supplier roughly 200 bucks for all 5 panels. yep, it's a template. It's not supposed to fit perfectly.

Last year, I learned of a new polycarbonite product called Makrolon. It's about .030 guage thick, has scratch & UV resistance, and is really very rigid. Best of all - it's as clear as glass. I've wanted to change my panels since I learned of the product a year ago - but I just wasn't sure that my lifestyle of boating needed it.

Well... I changed my mind - and we just had custom panels made. We rarely take the connector panels off - so the visibility improvement will be amazing. We fixed the issues with leaking. I can still take these off and put the original stock one's on.

We have a local canvas guy that does magic.

The results:
We went with one peice rigid panel for each side. 1 englarged center panel for walkthrough. It folds back and I have straps to snap it up. It fits between the speakers in the arch. I have a fleece 'sock' for the panels when we do remove them. They'll store on the bed. The clarity is unreal. It's glass. There is no sagging or wrinkles and the cockpit actually feels very spacious

For anyone who does travel in rainy/inclement weather - this is amazing. But, this is not for the person who removes the panels regularly.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Very nice! It does look extremely clear. Nice and tight also.

Do you have a closeup pic of what was there? If the old system snapped like this one to the windshield frame....Why did it leak and this one doesn't?

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Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

Very nice. I know what you mean about the factory glass.....not impressed at all. Until we slip I'm keeping mine though, as it is always rolled up.

Markolon is great stuff! How much did doing that set you back?

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2007 358 T-5.7GXi IB
Previous Boats
'08 H240, '08 V318, '04 268, '04 225

Very nice!! We did something similar with our 268 this spring. I have the windshield connector and the 2 side curtains in from of the arch remade using strataglass. What a difference that made. This looks even better that that.

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Jeff

'14 Cruisers 380 Express "Simon Sez"
Merc 8.2 Mag MPI 380
DTS B3X, (x2) Axius Premier


(SOLD)
'08 V318
Merc 350 Mag MPI 300
DTS Seacore, B3 (x2)

The factory panels were made from a template. They just never fit very snug and when exposed to heat, they were 'supposed' to shrink up to fit.

I think the template was ok, but when it was fit to the boat at the factory, things just didn't line up. Along the windshield frame, there were large gaps where water would come in when underway. The seal along the arch was great though.

The worst was just the ripples in the view because of the excess material and sagging.

The new Makrolon is rigid. It's a thin sheet of lexan basically. it bends, but it's not made for rolling. Pricewise, at least in my area, they start at around 400 per panel.

Here's the worst areas of what the factory fit it.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

If you take your windshield panels down alot - this product is not for you. We find that we keep the panels up, but have the middle panel rolled almost 100% of the time. So, I elarged the center panel by going 3 inches wider on each side, and it folds back up into the cockpit when you unzip on each side. I have 2 straps that snap to hold it up. I'm 6'2''+ and it does not impact headroom at all. I also made it so they don't go wider than the 2 upper speakers in the arch.

Having this makes me realize how the rest of the camper canvas is. I still get some leaking in the camper canvas area, but it's live-able because we take down the side and back panels alot. Plus, we're in covered moorage, so it's less of an issue.

However, we'll see how long I can go before the rest of the panels are modified (screens removed) and refit with sheet glass or strata glass that can be rolled up . A friend of mind had a canvas job that he could roll up every panel and never had to unzip. Or, if he did unzip, he rolled them up and then unzipped it - so he didn't have to fumble around with rolling loose canvas.

The screens bother me the most I think -- but that's just because we don't need them up here in Seattle. I can absolutely see how they would be awesome in a 'buggy' environment.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

I love the look of those panels. They really look sharp and clear.

I take my panels down unless it's raining so they would not work well for me. I hate storing panels in the cabin too mainly because of spiders.

So I'm stuck with rolling the panels and storing them under the port lounge. After 2 and 1/2 seasons, they are already starting to get worn. I'm guessing that I'll get 4 seasons before I need some repairs.

It's too bad there is no easy substitute for Sunbrella and clear vinyl.

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2008 V358 Two-tone Blue V/P Dual Prop 320 HP
Lake Winnipesaukee, NH

Those look great! We are getting to the point of having to replace the front panels. We do take ours down quite a bit, however we usually button up before turning in, I wonder if laying them on the V berth would be feasible. The First mate said the next boat will not have isenglass!

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Michael Bova


"Swept Aweigh"
2003 Four Winns 328 Vista

Previous Boat
2003 Crownline 230CCR

You can definitely lay them flat on the bed. You'll want to make sure they are clean before you pull them off, and obviously put a sheet between each layer.

It's well worth it, if you don't mind giving up the 'flat' storage real estate. If you put them up every night - putting them on the bed is your best option.

We were out in the rain last weekend for the weekend, and visibility is about 1000 times better than with the old setup.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Cougar,
How does the Makrolon connect with the canvas on the perimeter of each clear piece? is it glued , stiched, or something else? Any issues with the plastic seperating from the canvas? i am interested in this set up, but a bit concerned about fabric/plastic seperation. Thanks

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2008 378 Vista
"Not 2 SHABI"
IPS 500 Volvo-Penta D6

Previously
'06 318 Vista
'97 258 Vista
'98 195 Sundowner
'87 180 Horizon

There are 2 ways it can be done.

1) the VERY expensive way. They thermally bond material to the edges of the makrolon and then sew against that. It's like 'glue'. 600-800 per panel in the Seattle area.

2) My way - and the 'normal way' done in Seattle. The Makrolon is sewn to the canvas using a very heavy sewing machine and tipped needle. It's done at a good spacing and off the edge far enough to maintain strength and avoid cracking. Because the panels are perfectly sized and custom fit, there is very little tension (the weight of the panels) on the snaps and canvas.

We're loving it so far.

I will say that staying with 5 panels would make things alot easier to work with. We took ours down for the weekend here (90+ in Seattle is just amazing weather). It's definitely a 2 person job for me with panels nearly 8 feet tip to tip.

Next time, I might pay more for the 5th panel. I did have him sew in split zippers at the top so it'd be easy for me to go back to a 5 panel setup if I need/want to.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Cougar - not to scare you but I came across this on the Sea Ray board. Hope your panels don't have the same fate because they look great.

http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36062

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Former owner of:
1996 Four Winns Horizon 200 5.8L VP
2006 Four Winns Horizon 260 8.1L VP
2007 Sea Ray 290 Sundancer

Current boat
2004 Sea Ray 290 Sun Sport Twin 350 Mags

Ahhh, Frank is the author of the CSR link, that explains it. There is some complaints out there about the Makrolon over time.
I have heard nothing but good reports on the GE Lexan stuff however. Could be an expensive experiment for Cougar, but may be just fine since his boat is in a covered slip most of the time.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

I hear ya Cap. I in no way am vouching for the accuracy of the report. Just thought I'd pass it along. Would love to have something like this but overall wouldn't work well for our boating style.

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Former owner of:
1996 Four Winns Horizon 200 5.8L VP
2006 Four Winns Horizon 260 8.1L VP
2007 Sea Ray 290 Sundancer

Current boat
2004 Sea Ray 290 Sun Sport Twin 350 Mags

I have seen boats with 3 year Makrolon jobs here in Seattle and they look as new. they are not stored under covered moorage. However - they are also not exposed to the severe heat/UV as you are in the southeast/southwest/south.

The canvas shop I used is one of the top 3 in the pacific northwest. He's recently been supplying product for oil skimmers down in the gulf for the spill.

He's a stand up guy. if this product is crap, I have total faith I'll be treated right.

However, I do think people tend to jump the gun and somehow everyone has a science degree and a hypothesis as to problems/solutions.

Makrolon is good stuff. I'd stand by it.

(but, what do I know)

We couldn't be happier with the results. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA