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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:51 am 
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Have a 99 Horizon 200 with sport interior. Had to change the impeller this spring. Took out the back of seat out to do so. Talked with the dealer & they said the only way to do it is remove the back. It was fairly easy. Unfortunately I didn't think of taking pictures. You need to take off the head rest piece across the top first. Pretty easy there are 4-5 nuts underneath & 2 on the sides. Then you need to remove the screws from the backside of the plastic back. Once they are all out it simply lifts out. You can then pull the bottom of the bench forward & it wall lay flat. Giving you perfect access to change the impeller. Probably takes 15-30 minutes to take out the 1st time.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:58 am 
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Location: West Michigan
Good info guys ! I will have to say, this design was NEVER shown to a boat mechanic or boater before it went into production. Awful lot of hassle just for routine engine service. Now that Four Winns claims they listen to their customer's and dealers and make boats that they all want, the engine servicing should be a piece of cake in 2011 boats and newer.......

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:08 am 
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Graham R wrote:
I've found this type work well in plywood and fibreglass; very easy to screw in using an allen key/ hex driver and the thin flange makes them screw in almost flush to the surface ( and makes the installation look tidy). The coarse external thread spreads the load well.
http://www.theinsertcompany.com/steel_hex_drive_inserts_for_wood_headed.shtml

Nice, those are basically the same thing I used except for the Allen recess, the ones I used had a slot for a large screwdriver. I have a right angle ratcheting screwdriver that I used to put em in.


Where you have access to the rear of the panel, these pronged T nuts work well for plywood and Starboard ( but not fibreglass)
http://www.theinsertcompany.com/steel_t_nut_inserts_for_wood.shtml

Graham



FW and other boat companies should hire US to design their engine compartments, that would help them keep customers and mechanics as well......

As far as them listening to customers, I looked at the vid for the new 180 I/O, another nasty cramped engine hole, that will make a starter change, or oil filter change (if not remote mounted) a pain in the posterior. All so we can have a nice walk through and fancy folding seats. Who gives a crap about that, when you can reach a damn thing? When they go back to a full width style engine compartment, with engine stringers not right next to the starter, and easily removed interior panels then I'll feel that they listened. We did a better job with our boats and we're not (at least I'm not) an engineer but do have some mechanical common sense based on 40 years of mechanical maintenance......

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:53 am 
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Location: West Michigan
Lou, my comments were tounge n' cheek about FW listening to customer's. Based upon new and some of the past designs, the following statement from Four Winns is all marketing BS, and NOT what has really happened in the company.

Quote:
At Four Winns, we do a lot of homework and spend a lot of time researching boaters' needs. Sounds tough. But, in boating, research can be fun. It means we take our products on the water; use them ourselves, a lot. That's a start, because we see what works and what doesn't in real terms.

We talk to other boaters, Four Winns owners and owners of other brands as well. We want to understand what boaters want and what they truly value in their boats' features. That's why Four Winns leads the industry with so many advanced and innovative features.



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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista
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Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:31 am 
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Thanks for all the replies. A lot of good ideas.

If I need to take the seat back out, I will take pictures and post them here.

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:58 am 
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Location: Long Island NY
Cap'n Morgan wrote:
Lou, my comments were tounge n' cheek about FW listening to customer's. Based upon new and some of the past designs, the following statement from Four Winns is all marketing BS, and NOT what has really happened in the company.

Quote:
At Four Winns, we do a lot of homework and spend a lot of time researching boaters' needs. Sounds tough. But, in boating, research can be fun. It means we take our products on the water; use them ourselves, a lot. That's a start, because we see what works and what doesn't in real terms.

We talk to other boaters, Four Winns owners and owners of other brands as well. We want to understand what boaters want and what they truly value in their boats' features. That's why Four Winns leads the industry with so many advanced and innovative features.




I got the tongue in the cheek, Captn....they want stuff that sells boats...fancy seats and walk throughs, I guess they do, but thats to first time buyers, people who have had boats for years know better, and if they want to get repeat buyers who may move up in the sizes, they should make their entry level boats reasonable to maintain.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:45 pm 
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Well, I changed the impeller without taking the seats apart. I just took the batteries out so I could get in their easier. I had to use a mirror to see the 2 bolts in the water pump torque bracket. I took the top bolt all the way out, and loosened the bottom one enough to be able barely swing it out of the way.

I also found that when loosening the 4 brass screws on the water pump housing, some 5/16" sockets (1/4" drive) did not fit in between the inlet & outlet pipes, but a different 5/16" socket (a cheaper one) did fit in-between, because the body had a smaller diameter.

Image
Impeller was in BAD shape. Amazing that the temps were not high. Glad I changed this before our 160 mile cruise next month.

I still need to finish putting it back together tomorrow and test it.

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:02 pm 
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Location: Lower Niagara/Lake Ontario USA
rpengr wrote:
Image
Impeller was in BAD shape. Amazing that the temps were not high. Glad I changed this before our 160 mile cruise next month.


Shoot, you think thats a bad impeller? Check my last one out:

Image

Yeah, I pegged my temp guage right when this one went kaflooey...

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:24 pm 
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NiagaraChillin wrote:
rpengr wrote:
Image
Impeller was in BAD shape. Amazing that the temps were not high. Glad I changed this before our 160 mile cruise next month.


Shoot, you think thats a bad impeller? Check my last one out:

Image

Yeah, I pegged my temp guage right when this one went kaflooey...

Mine wasn't far behind. A lot of cracking you can't see in the picture. This VP impeller seams a lot thinner than some of the older OMC, Yamaha, and Evenrude impellers that I have seen in the past. I saw many of them in better shape at 5-7 years old.

I'm not sure how old mine was, except that it was at least 3 years. How old was yours Niagra?

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Image
"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:15 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY
You might also consider pulling off the thermostat housing and see if the missing bits are in there....
I have used impellers on my Cobra for as long as 3 years and they look pretty much new when I take em out. But it where you boat does make a difference, I usually try to use the boat at times of high tide since at dead low tide the water is only 3 feet deep in my mooring spot and you're more likely to pull up sand then.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:45 am 
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Location: Lower Niagara/Lake Ontario USA
rpengr wrote:
I'm not sure how old mine was, except that it was at least 3 years. How old was yours Niagra?


I'm guessing about 5 years old, maybe more. Like I said in my other thread about removing my drive, I believe the previous owner was good at the small stuff, but not the "gettin dirty" side of maintainence.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:27 am 
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Quote:
I'm guessing about 5 years old, maybe more.


That thing might be original. I'm only on my second one.
I will probably change it in the Spring. Ours don't get too torn
up around here.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:34 am 
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boater wrote:
Ours don't get too torn up around here.


Unless ya hit that sand bar by Tonawanda Island, eh? Had 2 buddies shred their impellers there, sucked up a gallon O' sand.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:43 am 
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Yup, that would be a problem.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:12 pm 
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LouC wrote:
You might also consider pulling off the thermostat housing and see if the missing bits are in there....

I agree. I started to take the thermostat housing off today, but then stopped. I decided to order new hoses and replace those at the same time. I also have the gaskets so I can remove and inspect the manifolds and risers.

_________________
Image
"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings


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