www.iFourWinns.com

Two antennae? That's stupid. Why don't they just use a splitter? Shakespeare makes one, I've been using it to split a single antenna between a Clarion sirius interface and a Raymarine weather unit. Works great. There's not a lot of room on the radar arch when you start piling up devices. That and why bother having a whole other hole drilled through the gelcoat when it's easier and probably cheaper to just use a splitter. It's probably something stupid like they get the antenna "free" with the radio head unit, where as they'd have to "pay" to get the splitter.

Many radio head units for automobiles can also do video. It's a shame to see things like separate systems for the DVD playing. Why don't the manufacturers do a better job with this integration?

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Bill - I completely agree with you about the antenna redundancy. This whole setup may not survive the model year (Four Winns does seem to get it right with correcting owner annoyances year-to-year). Fortunately, they use the low-profile antennas for the radios. You cannot see them protruding from the arch unless you're standing on the foredeck looking down at the arch and they are mounted in a way (fore and aft of the weather antenna) that they occupy otherwise unusable space. If there was an easy way to post pictures here I could show you. I'm happy to hear the splitter works. I was going to go that route on my last boat and was told not to. I never ended up installing the weather module before I traded the boat in.

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

Bear in mind the splitter is not just a passive device. As in, you can't just use a plain cable TV coax splitter. Satellite systems get their power from the head unit. That is, the radio (or weather unit) isn't just getting a signal from the antenna. It's also SENDING power (and sometimes signals) back UP to the antenna. Thus the need for a splitter. This keeps the radios from conflicting against the single antenna. Now, I'm paraphrasing here, but that's the general idea. So using a smart splitter, such as the one from Shakespeare, prevents conflicts.

As for unused space, not sure about that. I've got VHF, wifi, radar, satellite radio and TV up on my arch and there's not a lot of room to spare. Not if you want the equipment to have unobstructed views of the sky, that is. But I don't know just how much interference is going to occur with the typical enclosed radome or TV antenna.

Frankly I'm just bothered by the 'needless extras' perspective. Why put more holes into the arch and risk leaks? Why have more stuff exposed to degradation from UV exposure? Why have more cabling stuffed into the arch, likely to chafe and break over time?

My single complaint about FW build quality is the way they secure wiring in the vessel. I believe I heard someone else comment to the effect that this is typical for a builder that's not building a boat for the rigors of offshore punishment. That and things that run up into the arch are often *dealer installed* since the arch is not attached when the boat is delivered from the factory. Mine have several defects in this area, including the TV antenna just not being attached *at all*.

Duplicate and/or non-integrated systems means inconvenience to the customer, not just up front, but all down the line too.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Well, I figured out Photobucket, so I thought I'd post a few shots of a factory-fresh '08, some which address a few of the items we've been discussing. Just shout if you want to see more...


'08 Galley with exposed coffee maker with thermal carafe. The carafe is locked securely in place.


'08 Electrical and A/V panel behind a single door. The raised toggle switch on the lower right column is for the panel lights - easier to locate if you come into a dark cabin and the light breakers are off. The A/V gear is flush mounted in a removable panel.


'08 Cockpit refreshment center. Notice the new blue convenience lighting.


Cockpit sink - there is now a metal grate for fridge/icemaker venting behind the grab bar.


They're kind of hard to make out, but the low-profile Sirius antennae for the audio system are on either side of the antenna for the weather module. Only the forward of the two slightly exceeds the horizontal plane of the weather antenna footprint.


Wider shot of top of arch. TV antenna not yet installed.

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

Nice work, thanks for posting those pictures.

The fridge vents were new for the 2007 model. I've been meaning to order one of those grates and add it to our 2005 model. It does get hot in that cabinet. That and water tends to leak down into the cabinet next to the fridge and leaves the carpet wet for extended periods. Better venting would possibly help let it dry. If/when my carpet in there gets funky I plan on removing it entirely and going with something like a section of removable astroturf, or even just bare deck.

I prefer having separate cabinet doors. It keeps guests that fiddle with the radio from going into the breaker panel by mistake. I'd miss the little shelves next to the CD changer and DVD player. I use those for storing the remote controls. That and I added two 12v outlets for cell phone and gadget chargers. The shelves give me a place to stuff them while they're charging.

I like seeing that toggle switch for the lights. Good to see it's the only thing protruding on that section of the panel. Makes it less likely you'll hit something else. They've also changed the hinge direction, now it opens toward the couch instead of toward the door. That's an improvement. There's also a big blank space next to what I'm assuming are the genset and blower switches? I'd love to have a little more room on our panel to add a few breakers and bilge pump counter. From the looks of it they still haven't integrated the DVD player with the stereo. Ah well. Where are the AUX jacks for input from an MP3 player?

From the looks of it there's a push-button latch on the cabinet door with the coffee maker in it? I'd hate to lose access to the storage space next to it. It looks to be about the same size as the black & decker coffee maker too. I'd still be concerned about how well that carafe and water jug stay in it. Get tossed in a storm and you learn new appreciate for secure storage.

Shame they're still using the same anchor light. The bulb in it is just way too weak. It's about the only thing the admiral complains about. When we come back to the boat on the dinghy, she sees that light and it's just not as bright as other boat anchor lights. Fortunately that's the extent of the complaints! I keep meaning to pull that bulb and see what my options are on replacing it...

Otherwise it looks like they're sticking with basic 348 design with a few nice improvements.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Sierra, thanks agian for the pictures.

Bill, it looks like the push button latch on the coffee maker cabinet is just a reflection of the button under the TV. My guess is that the only access to that space is by removing the coffee maker.

I looked up the coffee maker purely by button placement and appearence, it looks like they bought it from http://www.contoure.com. They also seem to supply the Tappan microwave and probably the electric stove.

There seems to be an awful big gap around the coffee maker and microwave, does it look so bad in real life? Probably just the camera flash highlighting the space.

On another subject, any help on where the factory transducer is located or how to access the back of the helm instruments?

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2008 V358 Two-tone Blue V/P Dual Prop 320 HP
Lake Winnipesaukee, NH

The depth/temp transducer is located in the engine compartment. Port side about 12" back from bulkhead and about right in the middle of the space between the stringers. Mine is an Airmar unit, through the hull and connected via SeaTalk to the E-80 chartplotter (which I upgraded from a C-80 through BOE Marine for a decent price). Access to the inside of the helm is through the hole cut for the chartplotter. I don't think there's an "easy" way to remove the dash panel itself, but then I haven't tried. Pulling the chartplotter is trivial, just pop the bezel and then it's four screws. Popping the bezel is the hardest part. I found it's best to use an upholstery tool used for popping tacks. It sort of looks like screwdriver with a wide flat blade, bent slightly and with a fork in the middle of the blade tip. It gives just the right amount of leverage under the lip of the bezel to pop it loose without marring the dash panel itself.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

There's hardly any gap around the microwave in our 348. I can't recall what brand ours is but it's NOT that one. Ours fits much more closely. Seems a bit odd to see that much gap, I'd want a cleaner look, if just to avoid there being yet another place for something to slip behind.

Can you tell what brand of DVD player they installed? Our is some cheapie "Blackmoor" brand unit. It works, it'll even play a disc full of MP3 tracks.

And along those lines, folks thinking of using an iPod or other MP3 player might be surprised to find how many MP3 tracks you can stuff onto CD-R (let alone on a DVD!). I put about 300 tracks on a disc and use it in shuffle mode. Seems to work pretty well. If I want to pick particular tracks I can use the TV's remote to select them.

I'm really puzzled why they installed two different radios. Especially since they're both in the same location. In a sedan bridge sort of boat I could understand, but in an express cruiser? Just how likely is it that folks are going to want to play something different only FOUR FEET away? But for anyone considering which one to activate, I'd only get the Sirius subscription on the unit covering the cockpit. I don't think I've *ever* bothered to listen to the radio down in the cabin. The only time the cabin radio gets used is to play the DVD audio through it. And even then I had to wire that up myself as the normal setup just ran it only to the TV.

And has anyone ever bothered to use the CD changer?

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

jrcinnh is right - the latch you see to the left of the coffee maker is just a reflection. The person I saw the boat with reminded me that the carafe itself is physically locked into place with a push-button release, hopefully a strong enough hold for heavy seas. The aux-input for the cabin stereo is just above the Cruiseair control, right below the shelf:


The gap around the microwave didn't jump out to me when I was on board, and I'm quick to notice those things. My dealer and I are going to spend some time together with the NY Four Winns rep at the boat show in January so I'll gain insight into some of these changes. Yes, I wish it fit in there perfectly, but as I was discussing with someone last night, isn't it great that these are the design elements we're "complaining" about. Every time I go through the pictures I marvel at how much of the important stuff they got right, which isn't easy when you're designing for the masses.

The DVD player is from the fine folks at Blackmoor. I'm also pleased with all of the panel space - among other things, it will allow for an easy switch to route the cockpit Sirius to the cabin. Maybe an A/B/C switch to choose between the aux in, Cockpit unit output and DVD.

Bill - have you found that your bilge pump kicks on a lot when you're away from the boat or would you like a bilge counter as a 'just-in-case' system?

I really like how they cockpit breaker box is located underneath the helm seat - seems like a smart design...


And here are some helm shots - I don't think much, if anything has changed...

I don't know if they've done this before, but a really nice canvas helm cover is included - it snaps in to cover the entire helm area. No more towels draped over the wheel!

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

First of all, Bill thanks for all the posts and advice, you have been a huge help. It really made me feel good about my decision. All the people on this site have been very helpful.

I think the two radios are a good idea maybe a little overkill but a head unit is only $299 retail (FW pays a lot less). My Searay had a head unit and a amplifier, you could turn off the amp and just have music inside but not vice versa. Two units will let my baseball nut wife listen to the Sox below while everyone else swims to some tunes.

I think the gap looks worse in pictures because of the flash. It lights up all the white stuff behind the appliances so it shows through the gap. In real life it will be dark behind there and the gap will be much less noticeable.

I use the CD changer on my boat a lot, the radio coverage isn't that great. I made CD-R mixes of my home CDs. My Jeep has the 6 CD player with MP3, I have over a 1000 songs in there. So that will be the plan for the new boat.

On the anchor light, have you thought about those new bright LED's. You may be able to get one to fit, they are bright but not cheap. Actually I was surprised to see that FW doesn't provide a stern light. Being under 12 meters a 358 can use an all around anchor light instead, but a stern light always seemed more visible to other small boats.


Sorry to be a pest about the Nav stuff. It's not even Thanksgiving and I'm already getting cabin fever.

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2008 V358 Two-tone Blue V/P Dual Prop 320 HP
Lake Winnipesaukee, NH

It's interesting to see the dash. The layout is the same as the 2005 348. The material looks different. Those four screw heads visible around the outside of the chart plotter aren't there on the 2005. I'm guessing they might be how the whole dash panel comes out. The fuel vapor sensor and fire extinguisher monitoring gauges are side-by-side on the 2005. But that's because they put the SeaKey controller above them on that tan portion of the helm. The upper portion has the autopilot. I used the right binnacle to house a Lowrance LMF-200 gauge to monitor fuel flow sensors I installed. Everything else looks to be the same.

Personally, I'd move the fire extinguisher and vapor monitors somewhere else. The vapor monitor makes QUITE a loud noise when it trips so it's not like it has to be right out there in plain sight. But unless you know ahead of time that you're going to add stuff those locations seem like good ones. If you're thinking of adding fuel flow monitoring it's VERY nice to have a larger display. The LMF-400 4" round gauge would fit nicely up in the left binnacle, it's important to put it up where you can actually SEE it while operating the helm. But then you'd be cramped for adding an autopilot control head. So those fuel/fire gauges would be better off mounted lower.

If you're custom ordering the boat then perhaps now is the time to think ahead a bit. I'm sure FW would be accommodating about those gauge locations if you asked.

Hmmm, a canvas cover for the helm would be a nice addition for ours. I've been meaning to get a quote on having one made. What princely sum is the factory demanding for it?

In looking at your picture of the closed electrical cabinet I notice something just above the air conditioning control. I'm guessing it's an AUX input jack for an MP3 player?

If I had to make one recommendation for that area I'd ask they install some 12vdc outlets. I added two of them. Mine are both inside the lower portion of the electrical cabinet (the 2004-2007 use two cabinet doors). This lets me plug in two chargers; usually one for my phone and the other for the wife's blackberry. I'd like to see a 12vdc jack up next to the 110vac outlet up on the shelf. But the cabinetry there is pretty thick, otherwise I'd have added one myself. The factory doing it would be easier.

Having used the boat for a couple of seasons I'm thinking of adding a 12vdc jack at the bottom of the couch. This way I could plug my laptop's power supply there instead of snaking the cable along the top of the couch. I use a 12vdc universal power supply instead of the regular 110vac one. I have found it's really helpful to just buy spare power supplies for mine and the wife's laptops and just leave them on the boat. Much easier than dealing with lugging them back and forth.

I ran a cable for an iPod up around to the shelf by that port hole. I have a silicone skin case around my iPod and that keeps it from slipping around. The cable is just long enough to let someone kneel on the couch and fiddle with the selections. I'm using the edge connection on the bottom of the iPod, NOT the headphone jack. This lets me have it get charged while being used. Otherwise you'd have two cables, one for audio and the other for charging.

You're right about having a room for an ABC switch. I've been thinking of adding something like that. One that would let me turn off speakers to the forward berth. That and perhaps to add some speakers up on the foredeck. There are times when we're relaxing up on the foredeck that we'd like to have some music up there. But getting sound up there means cranking up the arch speakers and that's not terribly friendly when anchored out. I've been thinking along the lines of some small box speakers mounted to an upright portion of the railings. But the idea has sort of been set on the back burner, mainly out of hesitation on the effort to run the wiring up to them. That and being sort of an 'excessive' bit of gadgetry.

As for the bilge pump monitoring, given the dealer screw ups from last winter I had some leaks in the fresh water system. The pumps were running more often than I'd like. Having a counter for them can warn you of this. Bilge pumps are the single biggest weakness of boat. Don't use them enough and they're not there when you need them. Use them too often and they wear out. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. A counter just clues you into potential problems ahead of time. Most boaters won't ever worry about this... until they have to deal with leaks of some kind. Then you get all sorts of worried about it.

I've often wondered how they set up the circuit breaker at the helm. The 2005 doesn't have it. That space is open and it's where I stow a life jacket and the covers for the chart plotter and radio. Just watch out for that knob when you're standing at the helm. And also be aware that cabinet beneath the left half of the helm seat (not the lounger) tends to get wet inside of it. Don't know why. But that and inside the arm chair cubby tend to get damp.

Nice looking cream color vinyl. Nice wood table top too. Interesting to note the hand rail down on the edge of the helm seating. That'll make it a bit easier to climb up out of the engine compartment without grubbing up the seating with dirty hands.

All-in-all, a nice set of evolutionary improvements!

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Yes, that is the 1/8" audio input above the a/c control. I hadn't even thought about the audio system serving the foredeck - that will be an advantage of being able to crank up the cabin "zone" and perhaps even the front-back fader control will balance between the salon and berth speakers. I am getting the factory auto-pilot and will have the dealer install the multi-gauge in the panel below it. Even though the dealer could do it with no visible impact, good idea to see if the factory will move the vapor detector from that panel. I don't know what the they get for the helm canvas as it's standard (and such a great, simple idea and another example of FW added value). That teak table is an option. I splurged for the teak table for my Sea Ray and it will work in that space. I actually like the fiberglass table that now comes standard on the 358 - it's that darker color and has deep, stainless steel cup/bottle holders instead of the useless indents that my SR fiberglass table had. One feature I love is the multiple locations of the cabin lighting switches and I LOVE the nightlight feature that includes a low accent light in the head - very simple and very smart. Also, I don't know if it's new this year, but the electric ram that raises and lowers the engine hatch is virtually silent.
OK - one more batch of pictures...

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

Odd how they're showing off the boat with only one leg connected to the cockpit table. I'm sure that's a recipe for breakage. I know that after two seasons the screws for the aft leg socket are starting to work loose. We had the table pretty much installed all the time. When I pulled them last week to remove the carpet for the winter I noticed the base being loose. I'll have to screw it back down AND put a bead of sealer under it. It's interesting to notice they're putting slits into the cockpit carpet now to allow removing it without pulling the table legs. Yet another nice evolutionary improvement.

I'd trade to a different table if there was actually a placed DESIGNED to stow it. It was surprising after finding the nice storage place for the cabin table (under the forward berth) to discover there's no similar place to store the cockpit table. And it's JUST tall enough to not fit well down in the mid-cabin (as likewise is a problem for the sun pad for the table).

I'm guessing the bow pads (which are wonderfully comfortable) haven't changed either? Still no decent way to fold them for storage? I'm intrigued by the prop-up seat back options on Doral and some newer SeaRay models. Not sure they'd be as friendly though when using the walk-through windshield.

Yes, the in-cabin lighting is excellent. My only request would be an easy way to turn on/off the mid-cabin lights. Right now you have to go to each spot and twist the switch. It'd be nice to have a wall-mounted switch for them. Mainly because the mid-cabin ends up being used more for storage than seating or sleeping, and then you have to climb over everything to control the lights. It's great being able to control the main cabin lights from the forward berth. They're "three way" switches so there's the usual bit of confusion about which way is "on". But it's a GREAT feature. Everyone loves the night-light rope light up in the ceiling and in the window valances.

But, all things considered, it's great to have so few things to nitpick. These are really trivial issues compared to the horrors I've seen in other boat designs.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Sierra, Great Job with the pictures! Congratulations! I can't wait to see it next season on one of our trips up north!

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'04 FW 268Vista "Andiamo"

On the road!!! Dealer just called and it's on the truck and heading out of Cadillac. Hope they take their time with all the ice.

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2008 V358 Two-tone Blue V/P Dual Prop 320 HP
Lake Winnipesaukee, NH