Polar Vortex Round 2

ric · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:02 pm

I used to install Winterforce studded tires every year on my Cherokee Classic (2wd). Snow/ice? You couldn't tell the difference if it was an unplowed ice covered road or if you were driving down the countryside during an 80 degree day.

Winter Sux · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:10 pm

LouC wrote:

2" of snow caused all of that?
Here in NY usually it takes more like 6-8" for that to happen. As an aside, let me say that for real winter conditions all season tires are a bad compromise. I've used real winter tires 40+ years and they really help. ABS brakes+anti skid are only as good as the traction tires have.

ABS = anything BUT stop. That and traction control are useless options IMO. I pull my abs fuse for the winter and it shuts down both options. With winter tires my car performs properly. If I put that fuse back in, the car's virtually useless in snow.

ric · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:22 pm

Winter Sux wrote:

LouC wrote:

2" of snow caused all of that?
Here in NY usually it takes more like 6-8" for that to happen. As an aside, let me say that for real winter conditions all season tires are a bad compromise. I've used real winter tires 40+ years and they really help. ABS brakes+anti skid are only as good as the traction tires have.

ABS = anything BUT stop. That and traction control are useless options IMO. I pull my abs fuse for the winter and it shuts down both options. With winter tires my car performs properly. If I put that fuse back in, the car's virtually useless in snow.

I upgraded the brakes on my lexus to disks 1" larger and from 2 to 4 piston calipers. The ABS system went batshit crazy engaging with just light brake pressure and had to pull the fuse. Now the car will put you through the windshield when brakes are applied instead of with the factory brakes just gradually deciding it might want to stop one day.

Winter Sux · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:54 pm

Ric, did you just agree with me that ABS is useless, in a roundabout way?

kd4pbs · **Joined:** Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:34 am **Posts:** 350

298VISTA2000 wrote:

The weatherman screwed-up in Atlanta and instead of a "dusting of snow" in North Metro Atlanta, we got about 2" and the roads immediately turned to ice with the 20+ degree temperature. It is around 7:00 AM the day after and people are still stuck on the highways after 15 or so hours (kids in school buses too). What a colossal f**k-up.

Same thing happened here in the Raleigh / Durham area in 2005. The problem isn't the weather. The problem is the school officials, businesses, etc. that waited far too long to say, "Go home!"
They let school out on Tuesday around here because they didn't want a repeat. What happened? The weather didn't hit our county until 6pm. That being said, there was no gridlock.

ric · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:10 pm

Winter Sux wrote:

Ric, did you just agree with me that ABS is useless, in a roundabout way?

Depends on the vehicle. Something made domestically yes ABS/TC is trash and archaic. Step in a BMW or Benz and it's a whole nother story.

Kelleyo · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:05 pm

I may offend a few with these words but this is what I believe. I feel horrible for those who were stuck in this mess. Many were my friends, family (my mom abandoned her car and walked 1.5 miles in the snow at night), or coworkers. One of the reasons people from the North move South is to get away from the high taxes and the cold winter. Some of the high taxes up there pay for salt domes, plows, sand/salt spreaders, etc. We do not have many of those down here in Georgia (hence lower taxes). When these same people complain when the roads are icy here because nothing has been done to treat them it really pisses me off. The other issue here is that folks get complacent because snow storms like this are few and far between and forecasting is an inexact science. Sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong. Snow was predicted 2 weeks ago here and nothing happened. Then on Tuesday it was predicted again (and the lines of coverage kept moving North and South) so people just went on into work. At noon it all hit at once: Snow hit fast, Schools let out, everyone jumped in their cars, and the resulting jam prevented the meager number of salt/sand tucks to get out and do their job. The other thing that happens is the schools walk a tight rope. My wife is a teacher and you would not believe the complaints they hear at the school from parents who get upset when school is closed and then the bad weather fails to materialize. I guess that a lot of these parents work and need school to be their baby sitter. That or the soccer moms get mad cause they have to miss yoga class since Johnny had to stay home. So now after all of this the school system decides not to overreact on Tuesday and let the kids out later than they probably should have. Finally, our governments poor preparation and failure to lay down some salt and sand at least on the bridges (which became choke points) that backed up traffic. Those from elsewhere probably do not realize how hilly parts of Atlanta are and also the fact that the limited number of river crossings over the Chattahoochee create massive choke points even in normal traffic much less a snowjam. Here is what probably have prevented this from becoming the nightmare it was:

1. Schools should have been canceled. Screw the whiny parents. This would have forced a lot of people to stay home.
2. Additionally more people should have stayed home anyway if they possibly could (I did).
3. The Governor and Mayor should have pre-treated all of the major bridges and highways (at the very least).

Last but not least people need to quit blaming schools, weathermen, and the government and take some responsibility for their own fate.

LouC · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:10 pm

Amen to the last comment, how true...
We do have very high taxes here but local services are pretty good.
And winter weather is a normal occurrence so most towns are prepared.
But when TS Sandy roared through it was a different story, no real system for doing repairs, archaic equipment and just a disaster. Lucky I had gotten a generator from the last storm (Irene).
Even though we are prepared, no one uses snow tires here. I am the only one. And we have hills in my area that are so steep you can't walk up or down them if it snows. I used to use Nokian Hakka tires which were great but they are very expensive in the 17" sizes so popular today. So I switched to the much more affordable but nearly as good General Altimax Arctic studded snows. I have them on all three vehicles (the 2 Jeeps and the 98 Subaru Outback) and they are great. With all the expensive junk cars come with today, the one area they are lacking is in winter traction. I hate all season tires. Front wheel drive + all season tires + hills = many stuck cars. And front vs rear drive, well on hills FWD is worse, you lose traction as you go up hill and then you also lose steering traction. I'd rather have a rear drive with real snow tires on all 4 wheels.

schoolsOut · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:04 pm

All wheel drive + all season tires has done the job for me for years. My wife is a nurse and has had to drive to/from work in some pretty deep snow in our Subaru Outback. She has never had a problem. It is a great little car. If the storm is serious, she takes the Tahoe just in case she would end up off the road. Again, we just run Cooper all season truck tires on the Tahoe. Works like a charm. I can see the need for snow tires without AWD/4WD. I just can't see driving a vehicle that is not AWD/4WD, I like driving in snow too much!

RotaryRacer · **Posted:** Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:44 pm

I seem to get by ok with a 2wd truck on regular LT tires. Got about 400 lbs of sand in the back and I get around ok. Only had one issue this year getting out of my driveway with about 10 inches of new snow, trying to back out up a slight rise.

The FWD car has General Arctics W/O studs. Studded tires are not allowed in Michigan.

Look up where Barbeau is if you are curious.

298VISTA2000 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:30 am

Kelleyo wrote:

Last but not least people need to quit blaming schools, weathermen, and the government and take some responsibility for their own fate.

I work from home so wasn't caught in this mess nor my wife since she is a homemaker but most of Metro Atlanta was and they just can't decide to stay home from work or keep their kids out of school. We do rely on the weathermen and the government to make the call and they both failed in this case. The weathermen didn't predict North Metro Atlanta would receive this amount of snow and our state government should have been putting out salt/sand long before snow started falling. I just hope they don't use this as an excuse to raise taxes to go buy a bunch of equipment we will only use once every 4 years.

LouC · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:19 pm

8" of heavy wet snow on Monday....
4" of the same today, with freezing rain and sleet on top...just about the limit of my single stage snow blower (17 year old Toro)
and...they're talking about a possible monster storm 2' next Monday.

Winter Sux · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:24 am

You may need one of these Lou,,,,

http://www.chonday.com/Videos/snowblowvch1

JeffLW · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:46 am

Winter Sux wrote:

You may need one of these Lou,,,,

http://www.chonday.com/Videos/snowblowvch1

We seriously need this on my street.
I think this last storm dumped 10 inches. Hard to tell because it blew and drifted into 2' plus drifts in the driveway.

We are running out of places to put the snow and it is closing in on us. In the 12 years I've lived at my current house I've only seen it this bad one other time. We had to bring in front end loaders to move the piles back so we could get down the street.
If this next storm is as bad as they are saying it could happen again.

I can't wait for summer!

LouC · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:02 pm

Love that rat motor powered blower!

www.iFourWinns.com

Polar Vortex Round 2

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