Engine won't turn over

ckmisiu · **Posted:** Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:29 am

Hi guys,
I have been having starting issues with my 2005 horizon 200 with a volvo penta 5.0 gxi with EFI. Boat has low hours ~ 125 and this year is the first time it has been docked in the water. I've never had starting issues before until this year. Boat has regular maintenance done every year including winterizing and it has a brand new marine battery.

About a month ago, I took the boat out for the first time this season and it started right up in the dock. Went out, turned the motor off for 20-30 mins and then couldn't get it started. You could hear it cranking but the engine just wouldn't turn all the way over. I was panicking at the time because we were heading into some rocks so I might have been rushing and not waiting for the beep / alarm to go off. Once I took my time and allowed for the beep to come on, it finally turned over and it was fine but it took me at least 5 - 7 times. Didn't have any issues the next couple times I went out, and then it happened again. I thought it was old fuel (1.5 - 2 years old with stabilizer, boat was rarely used last couple years) so I filled up and the issue seemed to be resolved. I also bought some fuel injector cleaner recently and poured that in on an empty tank and it's been running well. Starts up first try.

Last night I was going out and the boat started up right away. It ran for less than a minute before I turned it right off because I forgot to put the cover away, didn't want to keep it running. I hopped back in the boat and the boat wouldn't start. Tried at least 10 times and it would crank but the engine wouldn't turn over. Full tank of gas, battery power was strong. No fuses blown. Kill switch wasn't tripped. Tried a few times for a few hours afterwards and same thing. It started sputtering a little after I let it sit for a while. It just kept cranking but the engine wouldn't turn over.

The only explanation I could come up with was that the engine was flooded. Unfortunately I didn't have my manual with me so I didn't try the recommended four winns WOT position for starting a flooded engine.

Thoughts? I didn't think flooding an EFI engine was so easy....

Thanks guys and sorry for the long post

Jdpber · **Posted:** Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:46 am

I think you could have a couple of issues and flooding is not the case unless your computer is running a muck and keeping the injectors open and this is super rare..

for starters I would make sure the ground from the starter to the battery and power are clean and tight.
2) have someone turn the key and make sure that both the low pressure pick up pump and the high pressure pumps are running. As I strongly feel that one of your pumps is bad and you are lacking fuel. As you can re start it after sitting but it will not re start mine acted like this when the high pressure pump was crapping out intermittently on me.
3)change the fuel filter. it could be clogged and causing issues. At the minimum check it.
4) make sure that the neutral safety switch int he throttle is good. If you used the throttle to fire it up and the lever was not fully ingaging the switch in neutral that can cause the motor to not start. (I always on any boat jiggle the throttles in neutral to insure they have activated the switch before starting along with touching and checking the emergency shut off) (last season i was having cut out full shut offs of the engine out of no where when i hit a wake and come to find out that the plastic clip on the emergency shut off had a small hidden crack in it and was not holding tight and large vibrations would allow it to trip the kill)

I am tossing ideas out their as i cannot hear the engine or see how you are starting the engine.

5) i would check all of the computer grounds and make sure that no wires are shorting out on anything.
6) pull and inspect the plugs to see if they are fouled etc checking the plug condition can indicate a lot of operational issues..

ric · **Posted:** Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:12 am

I quit reading after you said you had 2 year old gas in there. I don't care what magical product you put in the gas, you've done some damage there.

To avoid a total fuel system rebuild and replacing the fuel pumps I would first replace the fuel filter and put 2 cans of seafoam in the full tank of fuel. Go out and burn that tank empty on a weekend. Change fuel filter again, fill up with E10 gas not marine gas with seafoam. E10 fuel is a cleaner, it will get the gummed up fuel out of the fuel system. Run that tank empty the next weekend. Change fuel filter again. More E10 gas with a can of seafoam. Run that tank empty. Change fuel filter again. Use normal non ethanol gas and no cleaner it should be "okay".

Next time you plan on not using it for 2 years drain the fuel. The only way to really reverse what you did is to take the whole thing apart and have it all professionally cleaned but modern gasoline E10 blends like Chevron do a pretty darn good job of dissolving old gummed up/dried up gasoline.

ckmisiu · **Posted:** Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:31 pm

Yikes, that's no good. Now you've got me worried.

Had I known this boat was going to sit unused we would have drained the gas. This was originally our family boat and my dad wanted to get rid of it last year because it wasn't getting used... I wanted to keep it so I took over the payments for this year.

Anyway, I ordered a fuel filter and some seafoam. Hopefully the fuel injector cleaner I put in recently (Techron) will help too.

Thanks for your guys' help and I'll keep you posted.

ckmisiu · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:29 am

Update: So I hopped in the boat yesterday and tried to start it. Same issue, cranked but motor wouldn't turn over.

I tried the recommended WOT procedure that four winns recommends for flooded engines and the engine fired right up, no hesitation. As soon as it fired up I backed all the way down to neutral and it died on me. You could smell some gas for a couple seconds after in the engine bay so I continued to run the blower for a while and kept the back open. I didn't try it again but am happy it started. It sounds like a fuel delivery issue to me. Still waiting on the new fuel filter / seafoam.

Does this confirm what we think we know? I'm hoping it's just gummy / dirty inside and not an issue with the fuel pump.

NiagaraChillin · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:45 am

ckmisiu wrote:

Update: So I hopped in the boat yesterday and tried to start it. Same issue, cranked but motor wouldn't turn over.

I tried the recommended WOT procedure that four winns recommends for flooded engines and the engine fired right up, no hesitation. As soon as it fired up I backed all the way down to neutral and it died on me.

First, change your terminology. "Cranking" an engine and it "turning over" are the same thing. I think you mean cranking the engine and it wouldn't fire or start. Just my OCD kicking in.

As for it starting after the WOT procedure, try again, but when it fires, don't immediately go back to neutral, but pull back about half-throttle, see if it stays running.

ric · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:18 pm

I'm confused by his terms too LOL

Cranks but didn't turn over? What does that mean LOL

ckmisiu · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:45 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=064Ilsz8Fzg

Skip to 15 seconds... how else would you describe that?

You can hear the motor turning but it won't fire up and start running.

Hopefully that makes it more clear. I will try and do WOT start again today and ease down slower on the throttle. I just got a little worried when I smelled the gas after I shut it off.

ric · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:21 pm

Time to clean the fuel system. Probably also replace the $700 fuel pump

ckmisiu · **Posted:** Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:13 pm

Updated: I changed the fuel filter and the boat started right up! I let it warm up and turned it on / off a few times with no issues / hesitation when starting. I took it out and it runs awesome. I can't remember the last time it ran so well. Smoother, more responsive throttle, higher RPMs, and better acceleration / performance. I got lucky this time and it looks like I won't have to replace anything else.

I will run some seafoam through it in the next 2 tanks of gas (will try the 10% ethanol blend too) and will most likely replace the filter again later this season.

Thanks for all your help guys!

Paul I. · **Posted:** Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:45 pm

I like to start at the basics first. I have seen to many boaters over think a problem. ALL of the above post could be and may be right. But before I would get to deep into this, I would do a tune up. Replace, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and some did mention fuel filter.

Just a thought?

GottWhat · **Posted:** Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:11 pm

ckmisiu wrote:

Updated: I changed the fuel filter and the boat started right up! I let it warm up and turned it on / off a few times with no issues / hesitation when starting. I took it out and it runs awesome. I can't remember the last time it ran so well. Smoother, more responsive throttle, higher RPMs, and better acceleration / performance. I got lucky this time and it looks like I won't have to replace anything else.

I will run some seafoam through it in the next 2 tanks of gas (will try the 10% ethanol blend too) and will most likely replace the filter again later this season.

Thanks for all your help guys!

Awesome, glad you got it running right and thanks for the follow up!

LouC · **Posted:** Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:14 pm

glad you fixed it.
Cranking=you turn the ignition key, the engine turns (turns over)
Starting=the engine cranks (turns, turns over) the ignition & fuel system work together and the engine....starts....

Can we all agree on that? LOL.....

and for the 'ole 4 stroke engine, what are those 4 strokes?

the impolite version:
Suck, squeeze, bang and blow
the polite version:
intake, compression, ignition, exhaust

But the first way of describing it is more fun....

GottWhat · **Posted:** Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:15 pm

LouC wrote:

glad you fixed it.
Cranking=you turn the ignition key, the engine turns (turns over)
Starting=the engine cranks (turns, turns over) the ignition & fuel system work together and the engine....starts....

Can we all agree on that? LOL.....

I agree, people mix these terms up all the time.

kd4pbs · **Joined:** Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:34 am **Posts:** 350

Now I'm confused... Ric tells us all that 2 year old gasoline is by it's very nature, no good, but your boat is running fine on it.
Glad you found the problem, and that it was a simple fix! Woohoo!

www.iFourWinns.com

Engine won't turn over

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