www.iFourWinns.com

Took the boat to the weighbridge today. 1990kg
Looking at the individual numbers:
Boat + Motor - 1260 kg ( published)
Trailer - 460kg ( plate)
Half tank of fuel + oils etc Approx 70kg
Wake tower base 30kg ( left top of tower at home)
Anchor + chain + safety gear etc 30kg
Bimini - 20kg
Shower pump etc 10kg
Boat was empty otherwise. No life jackets, no ski gear, no carpet.. Total 1880kg. Weighbridge = 1990kg so 110 kgs difference (242 lbs difference).

So am I missing something or is it too heavy?

I have now had the 19P high five prop worked on by a prop specialist. Drilled 6mm holes at the back of each blade to add ventilation, and added to the cup for higher top end and to bring down the revs a bit. Also mirror finish polished and all edges ground sharp. Taking it out today for a run. Will test 0-30mph with high five, then with 17P 3 blade ali. Will also measure WOT speed, and the app on my phone will calculate prop slip.. but seeing as the prop is not standard it may be invalid.

Next week boat is off to mechanic for a check of the electronics, for timing, fuel, etc. Don't expect him to find much unless he suggests the manifolds need replacing as they are original..... expensive job so hope not ...

_________________
Cheers

Mark
Melbourne
Australia

Boats:
Current: 2004 FW 190
2001 Mastercraft X5
1998 Malibu Response
1999 Sea Ray 180
17 ft Scimitar Barefoot (200hp Yamaha)
16ft Scimitar Ski (Yamaha 115)
1988 Ski Nautique ( Called Ski Antique)

We are getting there...

Tested reworked High Five 19P. 6mm holes drilled behind each blade, added more cup to each blade but left pitch the same at 19P.

Before modifying prop boat would struggle to gain revs. 0-30mph was about 10 seconds, this is about the same acceleration as the current FW180 with the 135hp 4pot, as tested in the boat mags. This reinforces my believe that my boat would not pull the skin of a custard in any hurry...
Took about 10 seconds to pull me out slalom - not to 35mph but just to get me on top of the water. My previous 180 Sea-Ray with 130hp 4 cyl and 500 hours was about the same looking at and timing the old videos.

17P 3 blade aluminium prop was better at about 8-9 seconds 0-30mph, slalom up was about 9 seconds, but WOT was 34mph limited by the rev limiter.

Yesterday the modified prop showed promise. 0-30 is now just over 6 seconds, and pulling me up slalom now 6 seconds. The holes allowed the prop to vent and the motor to rev up to 3500 - 4000 rpm on pull off. This puts the revs in the high torque zone and performance is now acceptable, not great or what I expected but acceptable enough to not have to sell the boat.

WOT now about 44mph, up from 40mph, so the increased cup has helped here too. Still really easy to hit the rev limiter.

Fuel consumption is currently very good, been out 3 times on the same tank.. Motor runs sweet, no miss, no stalls, idles smooth and quiet, just lazy to rev up?

Next step is to take boat into marine mechanic this week for a full check and see if he can find anything that might help, followed by an ECU remap and rev limiter increase. Found a local crowd that can remap the ECU module and raise the rev limit and perhaps adjust the fuel curve for more torque

Hydrofoil has been removed so handling is improved, and somehow the current modified prop seems to really help the boat stay stuck in the water. I can now confidently chuck the boat around at reasonable speeds and it seems safe. I feel confident I can now flick the kids around on the inflatable with out sinking the boat.

It has been suggested that I should have bought the 300hp V8... wish I could afford it.. but I am not expecting 300hp performance, just better than my old 130hp Sea Ray and at least close to similar boats with similar motor packages (ie my mates Sea Ray 205 with the same motor which seriously outruns me.. by a long way..).

Will post up anything my mechanic finds this week.

_________________
Cheers

Mark
Melbourne
Australia

Boats:
Current: 2004 FW 190
2001 Mastercraft X5
1998 Malibu Response
1999 Sea Ray 180
17 ft Scimitar Barefoot (200hp Yamaha)
16ft Scimitar Ski (Yamaha 115)
1988 Ski Nautique ( Called Ski Antique)

Bloody Hell Mark....you have done some experimenting. By the sounds of it, you are getting very close to what you expect out of the boat.
Thanks for posting your findings as it may come in handy to others.

BTW: Where did you do the testing??

Cheers, Craig

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2007 H220 5.7 MAG

Thanks Mate,

Weighbridge was a scrap metal place in Pakenham - $20 for a print out. Interesting to see that my boat ( empty) and Vehicle weighed in at 4250kg combined...(9370 LBS). Once loaded up for a long weekend I reckon that would easily touch 5 ton (11000lbs).

All the boat testing has been done at either Lake Narracan, or Hazelwood, both about an hour from me, both about the same altitude (compared to Lake Eildon for example), and we have heaps of Go Pro Video from the last few seasons skiing down there so direct comparisons can be made from videos.

Cant wait for the mechanic to check the electronics etc on Thursday... but have mixed feelings. If he finds a problem that will validate my opinion but will cost money to fix, any cheap repairs will not likely amount to much of an increase in performance. If he finds nothing, then a cheap exercise, but I will have no more to gain other than the knowledge that this is the best it will ever be.. aaah first world problems hey, could be worse - could have no boat! ( or an expensive, over priced unreliable, POS Mastercraft )

_________________
Cheers

Mark
Melbourne
Australia

Boats:
Current: 2004 FW 190
2001 Mastercraft X5
1998 Malibu Response
1999 Sea Ray 180
17 ft Scimitar Barefoot (200hp Yamaha)
16ft Scimitar Ski (Yamaha 115)
1988 Ski Nautique ( Called Ski Antique)

So boat is back from Mechanic. Plugged it into the computer and everything is fine, no errors no problems. Timing is good. Checked Fuel System and pressures good, Injectors all cleaned and running to std fuel mapping. Checked plugs, leads and distributor etc - all good. Exhaust is fine and flappers still in good condition. Compression was to factory spec and all cylinders were almost identical. In short nothing to report..

Boat seems to have had a reasonably easy life with 99% of the run time below 2999RPM. ( could actually be a little lazy and not used to hard running, but I am happy that will change over time with me - if there is such a thing as a lazy motor?)

So after all that I must now accept it for what it is, a great big family boat for cruising and some social water-sports. It is not going to be a sports boat... I need to get my head around it being an underpowered people mover rather than an SUV, and definitely no sports car.

The positives however are that the handling is now vastly improved with the removal of the Hydrofoil, and the modified Hi Five has made a big difference to both handling and hole shot. Fuel consumption is staggeringly good with 3 days out on the boat and still a third of a tank left.. Mind you we have not been towing inflatables yet......

Mechanic has suggested I run it on a higher octane fuel (95/98 RON in Australia) and that may make a difference as well. It is worth a tank to see.

Now I have started some research into bolt on superchargers $4k and then 300 HP....... mmmmm tempting but not worth the money with this boat.

Note to self... next boat will have the 300hp V8.

_________________
Cheers

Mark
Melbourne
Australia

Boats:
Current: 2004 FW 190
2001 Mastercraft X5
1998 Malibu Response
1999 Sea Ray 180
17 ft Scimitar Barefoot (200hp Yamaha)
16ft Scimitar Ski (Yamaha 115)
1988 Ski Nautique ( Called Ski Antique)

Yep, I always run 95 octane in my carbed 190. If you run 91, the engine diesels when you switch it off. When you compare the octane rating we use here to the RON rating USA and UK, it has to be 95 or better.

I have a similar issue with mine - used to top out at right on 80kph by the GPS with 2 people and half a tank of fuel. Now it's something like 68kph. Will be trying a few things this summer to try and claw back some of the lost speed.

_________________


Alec

2006 Horizon 190
VP 4.3GL/SX, Sunsport

Took the boat out today for an afternoon ski - Motor sh@t its self. had to get towed in.

Misfired and backfired a few times, also tended to bog down / flood / die on full throttle through the day. Finally gave a few big backfires, and stopped. Turns over and sounds like it is just about to start but nothing. will send to mechanic next week but for now my wife has hidden all the matches....

Not Loving boating right now.

_________________
Cheers

Mark
Melbourne
Australia

Boats:
Current: 2004 FW 190
2001 Mastercraft X5
1998 Malibu Response
1999 Sea Ray 180
17 ft Scimitar Barefoot (200hp Yamaha)
16ft Scimitar Ski (Yamaha 115)
1988 Ski Nautique ( Called Ski Antique)

What a bastard Mark.
Bad intro to Four Winns. Sounds like you may have bought a lemon.........................

Cheers, Craig

_________________


2007 H220 5.7 MAG

I hope it's an easy fix, Mark!
Did you have to use Sea Rescue?

_________________
2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS

Thanks Mate. We were at Hazelwood and a local fisherman gave us a quick tow.

Motor will not turn over this morning. Battery is at 12.6V , and you can hear the starter motor hitting the flywheel which rotates the motor a smidge but that's it.

Also no fuel supply but half a tank of fuel, and cannot check spark until it turns over.

My Local and trusted mechanic can't check boat for another few weeks, so I will check it out this evening myself.

_________________
Cheers

Mark
Melbourne
Australia

Boats:
Current: 2004 FW 190
2001 Mastercraft X5
1998 Malibu Response
1999 Sea Ray 180
17 ft Scimitar Barefoot (200hp Yamaha)
16ft Scimitar Ski (Yamaha 115)
1988 Ski Nautique ( Called Ski Antique)

Could it be hydrolocked?
Try removing the plugs, see it if will crank over.
12.6V is about 75% charged, it should crank if the rest of the electrical system is OK.
I'd go back and check all battery connections esp those on the starter solenoid and engine ground.
After that, check the grounds for the ECM (sorry don't know where they are, I have an antique carbed boat).
Let us know what you find.
Boats....love em....hate em....etc....corrosion never sleeps.....
BTW, take a look at your starboard side exhaust manifold drain. IF it leaks a bit, it could be dripping salt water (you're in Aust, salt water?) right on the starter solenoid terminals. I had this exact problem. I would up replacing the starter solenoid and I had to re-terminate all the wires they were so corroded. Then when I installed that drain plug, I use OMC gasket sealer (no more leaks). And coated the connections with Evinrude's Blue Snot (OMC/Bombardier Triple Guard Grease, best water proof grease out there)....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II