www.iFourWinns.com

Dedicated to Current and Future Owners
It is currently Fri May 02, 2025 3:47 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 106 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:50 pm 
Offline
230 Mike
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:59 pm
Posts: 5141
Location: Kansas City, Table Rock Lake
It's a little outside the box, but getting your local media involved might be useful, too. In this economy, no boat dealer wants bad press.

I'm surprised and discouraged that FW didn't do anything more to step up.

_________________
Image

Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:01 pm 
Offline
Shark

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:26 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Waukesha, WI
My wife has been saying that we are getting signs not to buy the boat.

1) During loan process we found an issue on my credit report - finally got to the bottom of it this week - Identity theft- someone bought 4 cell phones, tried but faile to buy tires and a 5th cell phone, with my name and SSN. Finally cleared this up this week.
2) I wrench the heck out of my back while cleaning out a slot large enough for the boat in the garage.
3) The boat show boat catasrophe
4) on the way back from not getting the boat on saturday i blow a radiator hose off the truck - lost all coolant - had it towed to dealer, at least this was under warr.

The funny thing is:
1) I feel less violated with the identity theft then the boat.
2) The identify theft was easier to fix the the boat issue.
3) This boat deal is more painful then the wrenched back
4) I felt less helpless and inconvenienced with the truck issue then the boat issue.

_________________
2008 H210:
- Two tone Navy Blue, Silver and Yellow
- 5.0GXi/SX 270hp
2006 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 5.9 Laramie


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:16 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:49 am
Posts: 401
Location: Eastern Canada
I would think that could be a double-edged sword. While it may be benificial for c5er if FW were to get a smell of distaste for thier product (or Genmar thier parent Co.) amonst its more avid enthusiasts. It is concievable that it could hurt him as well if discussions of his stratagies are shared in a public forum giving his opponents a heads up.
I suppose if all his attempts for satisfaction have already been exhausted then it might be worth a shot but it is likely best that he decide when or if he wanted to direct thier attention here. Customer service suggested they couldn't care less anyway - isn't that right?
Frankly, I had hoped to hear of results in a greater show of support from the manufacturer as I have just recently sent my deposit, but I guess they are not yet hurting as bad as the big 3 automakers yet. Yet . . .
At any rate, since it has come up - you all have the contact information for Jeff Olson / President in your owners manuals. Ironically his contact is below a warm, fuzzy letter he had signed promising a "Satisfaction Gaurantee" (is that not in itself a contract?) and specifically advising that if the dealer or customer service was of no help that you could feel free to contact him directly. What a crock - it would seem. My poor dealer has been great with me thus far but I will definatly use caution on delivery now! What absolute BS. :shock:

Jeffrey Olson
President
Phone: 231 775-1351
Fax: 231 779-2345
Email: boating@fourwinns.com

_________________
2008 Four Winns 210 5.7 GI/SX
2007 GMC Sierra 2500 Crew
1966 Fed-Up Wife


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:19 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:49 am
Posts: 401
Location: Eastern Canada
Damn this thread is picking up speed. I was responding to the pass FW the link to here. C5er - good post but I can't decide to laugh or cry for you?

_________________
2008 Four Winns 210 5.7 GI/SX
2007 GMC Sierra 2500 Crew
1966 Fed-Up Wife


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:01 am 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:11 am
Posts: 663
Location: Corinth, TX
I like Mike's idea of getting the local media involved. It seems like you've approached this from several angles now and are not getting the results you want and deserve. Try not to loose faith. We're all pulling for you.

_________________
2008 H210SS VP 5.7 Gi/SX
2011 Ford F150 FX4 EB
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:10 am 
Offline
email admin your custom rank
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:42 pm
Posts: 1152
Location: Kansas City, MO
c5er, I am an attorney in Missouri and Kansas. I don't practice in consumer law specifically, so I don't have a whole lot of info to give you that would be "legal advice." Especially true given that MO/KS law wouldn't apply to your situation, and the laws of Michigan and/or your state are likely to differ.

However, what I CAN give you for legal advice is this: go talk to a local lawyer SOON. If you don't have one, or don't know whom you should call, call your state's bar association and they will refer you to a lawyer in your area who handles your need. There is no need for you, individually, to fight this battle alone any longer. If a lawyer talks to you and tells you that you have nothing to stand on from a legal standpoint, then you know that you are stuck dealing with that situation. However, I am of the belief that the dealer's conduct here (as you are describing it-maybe we are missing some facts or important details that would make a difference?) MIGHT entitle you to just walk away from the deal and get your deposit back. Again, the law in your state might be different, so do not take my statements as being entirely correct. A local attorney can better answer that for you.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I'd like to play Devil's Advocate for just a moment. You've given us some pretty limited info about this deal. Looking back now, is there ANYTHING that you can think of (conversation, agreement you signed without reading, etc.) that might have led the dealer to believe that you either:
1. wanted to buy a boat show boat or wanted to buy a specific boat that you saw at the show that was already built and ready to go; or
2. were OK with them showing your boat at a show?

I know you've sort of indicated NO to #2, but is that definite? What about #1? I'm just wondering if there are some facts out there that we aren't getting (or maybe that the dealer understood one way and you understood another way) to make this dealer act this way and also make FW "not seem to care." To me, that is the only explanation for their conduct.

Again, not trying to take their side. I'm just trying to understand why at least FW doesn't seem to care. It just doesn't seem like everything fits together here.

_________________
Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:55 am 
Offline
All Night Long
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:03 am
Posts: 1899
Location: Lake Washington, Seattle, WA
I'd just like to remind any and all who are reading this thread that this situation should by no means be indicative of a flaw in the design, construction, or build quality of a Four Winns...

This is a case of a crappy dealer who just doesn't seem willing to go the extra mile for customer satisfaction.

There may also be a case of lack of honesty in what the dealer may be messaging Four Winns.... I would shoot it to the el presidente and see what happens.


c5er... don't let a few mishaps grow your distaste for Four Winns. It might very well be a case that corporate has a policy to not get involved (although I think they should at least investigate before shutting you out completely).

You have some tough decisions to make...

Option 1: Try to get a refund - kicking, screaming, attorneys, etc.. This could be a long drawn out process.

Option 2: Sit down with the GM of the dealership.... calm and composed... and agree to take delivery as long as 1) everything is cleaned up/fixed/perfect on the boat... to your personal satisfaction. 2) Get your new discount as a refund, not as a gift certificate. (however much you can squeeze out of them).

The boat WILL be a fantastic boat if it's delivered in proper condition. I would find another dealer for doing service work, warranty stuff, and accessories.

Boating season is upon us. They have the boat you want... and you just so happened to have already paid for it.

I'm beginning to think that this dealer is just crap. Four Winns' hands may be tied on this one - especially if they already discounted the boat heavily to you.

It sucks... it's reality - and it'll make people think twice about using that dealer for anything once they hear your story. Spread the word when you are boating... but ENJOY your boat - because it will be awesome!

_________________
Image
2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:18 pm 
Offline
Shark

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:26 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Waukesha, WI
pet575, thanks for your opinion on the matter, excellent information, good points.

To be clear; there was no mention ever of anything being used as floor model or show boat, and certainly nothing along the lines of can we use your boat in a show. Want I find even more peculiar is the fact that the boat show it was cited as going to was after we signed the contract, but after i questioned them on that point, they changed it to oooh it was at the boat show in milwaukee before you bought the boat.

Some of you are aware of my entrance here. We were at the boats show and the dealer made us an extremely attractive offer on a NEW 2007 210 with 5.0 carb. I was concerned that the 220HP might not be enough and they had no new 2007 with the 270HP, so we signed a intent to buy contract w/ a water test clause to be sure it would be good on the water. The deal was if the boat didnt work we would go to a 2008. After talking to some folks here i was convince 220hp wouldnt be enough, and imagining the case where we'd here ok you can have an 08 at list price else keep the 07, I talked to the dealer and we cancelled the 2007 and signed intent to buy a new 2008. We had to pay more for the motor upgrade but didnt get as good of a discount, as the 2007, because the boat was NEW and not a previous years model. The 2008 wasnt at the dealer yet, so they said, but would arrive in march. Little did i know that "not arrived" yet meant it was at another location of this dealer. So there was never any mention, inference or even inclination that either the 2007 or 2008 was anything other then brand spanking new.

I think its reasonable for an ordinary person to believe that a boat said to be new is new and not used as a show boat or floor model w/o this being identified. Its funny because at the boat show we attended, there was a boat with a sold sign on it and I commented to my wife that what kind of idiot would buy a boat that was used in the show - just look at the pounding they get. (no offense to anyone who has bought a boat show boat :) )

as far as the boat being at the same show we were at, the 210 we sat in was blue not red, the only red boat we recall seeing had a tower on it. we have a picture of the row of boats that the 210 we sat in was at, and the boat sold to us was not in that picture. Of course its only a partially picture of the area, but its where those sized boats were.

Besides that, if this whole thing was above board wouldn't the sales person being going on about you are getting the same boat that was at the Milwaukee show were i met you. conversations with the sales person, as i hemmed at the much higher price, were - well you are getting an brand new boat and not a year old boat.

They have never argued that you agreed to take a boat show boat, there whole argument has been that its the same as new and fully warrantied and now we have cleaned it so theres no difference from new. So its as good as new. His sole arguement against the refund is that the paperwork for registration has already gone through the DNR so he can resell the boat as new. But frankly that is not my problem.

_________________
2008 H210:
- Two tone Navy Blue, Silver and Yellow
- 5.0GXi/SX 270hp
2006 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 5.9 Laramie


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:34 pm 
Offline
Shark

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:26 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Waukesha, WI
I called the president of four winns per the be a satidifed customer statement he makes and the end of the boat manual.

I called at 8am central this morning, left a polite message with the administrative assistant.

No return call at this minute.

Dear Four Winns Owner,

On behalf of everyone at Four Winns, congratulations – and thank you for choosing a Four Winns boat.

Four Winns is committed to customer satisfaction. If you are not completely satisfied with any aspect of your boat’s condition upon delivery – or if it does not meet your expectations at any time during your ownership experience – please contact your Four Winns Dealer or our customer service department.

In the event they are unable to assist you, or if you do not receive the response you expect, I invite you to contact me directly. Your feedback is invaluable to us as we strive to become the world’s most customer-focused recreational boat brand.
A thorough review of this Owner’s Manual will help you make the most of your boating experience. It not only includes information specific to the model you have purchased, but guidelines for better boating as well. Please take time to familiarize yourself with its contents, and to read - and reread often - important sections.

Once again, thank you and welcome to the Four Winns family.

Sincerely,

Jeffrey Olson
President
Phone: 231 775-1351
Fax: 231 779-2345
Email: boating@fourwinns.com

_________________
2008 H210:
- Two tone Navy Blue, Silver and Yellow
- 5.0GXi/SX 270hp
2006 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 5.9 Laramie


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:02 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:42 pm
Posts: 1152
Location: Kansas City, MO
c5er, I hope you get some satisfaction out of this in the end and eventually have a FW that you are pleased with. I meant to add to my previous post, and cougar hit on it pretty well, that if you do wind up in a FW of your choice in the end you will be very pleased. In the meantime, you deserve to be treated like a customer and not a gullible pigeon who will swallow any story thrown at you.

Granted, your dealer experience has been much less than ideal but if you get a good end result out of this process you will eventually sit in your boat on the water (or cruise along) on a beautiful day and look back on this ordeal and realize that, though it didn't go as planned, it still worked out in the end to where you got a product you'll be very pleased with, proud to have, that will provide you with years (hopefully) of great memories, and that you are glad you bought. After it is all said and done, you can exact revenge and stick to your principles by never dealing with that dealer again and encouraging others to do the same.

I hope you didn't take my previous post as doubting your honesty, memory, intelligence, or anything that you have told us thus far. I am still just astounded that the dealer is taking this position given this set of facts. I can't wrap my mind around why they would treat you and another member of our forum so differently for no apparent reason. Just doesn't make sense to me.

_________________
Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:26 pm 
Offline
Shark

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:26 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Waukesha, WI
Pet575, You post was great, I took no disrespect at all.

I just called the DNR for WI, My name is not even registered in the system yet. I asked them if the dealer can revoke the registration and they said this dealer does that all the time. hmmmm. They said the only thing they do not do is return the MSO mfg statement of origin, and that the dealer would need to get a duplicate from the manufacturer.

So their whole argument is a sham, which makes me guess its about $$$$.

_________________
2008 H210:
- Two tone Navy Blue, Silver and Yellow
- 5.0GXi/SX 270hp
2006 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 5.9 Laramie


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:29 pm 
Offline
Dolphin

Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:18 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Canada
I haven't read everything yet but have your battery checked, mine came with dual batteries and for the first week I had it the thing sat dead in the water, turned out one battery was completely hooped and was killing the other battery, pretty frustrating when it was only a week old.

_________________
08 210 SS Sunset Orange 300 Horse MPI Bravo1
98 Dodge Ram 12 valve Cummins 425 RWHP
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:35 pm 
Offline
Shark

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:26 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Waukesha, WI
Just called the GM told him about my conversation with the DNR. He was going to recheck the matter out.

_________________
2008 H210:
- Two tone Navy Blue, Silver and Yellow
- 5.0GXi/SX 270hp
2006 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 5.9 Laramie


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:47 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:41 pm
Posts: 773
Location: Waukesha, WI
Has he changed his tune any and started to work with you on this?

_________________
-Rob.

Image
Current boat: 2011 Yamaha AR210
Previous boat: 1998 Horizon RX 4.3GL SX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:21 pm 
Offline
230 Mike
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:59 pm
Posts: 5141
Location: Kansas City, Table Rock Lake
c5er wrote:
Just called the GM told him about my conversation with the DNR. He was going to recheck the matter out.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - now maybe something will start happening. Good job!

_________________
Image

Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 106 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group