New VP drive

TX H210SS · **Joined:** Thu May 27, 2010 9:10 am **Posts:** 1488

alex8q4 wrote:

The new drive is pulling rather than pushing. When trimming the drive up the props will face downward and pull the back of the boat down, thus making a large wake.

Force at transom is same...push or pull..the standard drive pushes rear of boat down. I still say the forward props do nothing for size of wake. Duo makes even wake

alex8q4 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:24 pm

I would suggest an entire engineering and marketing team would disagree with you.

Trim your drive 2/3 up and tell me how effective your prop is.... Remembering it will be at or above the surface while this rig fully submerged.

Your typical IO props are spinning in "dirty" water behind the drive, this rig puts the props ahead of that. This was the big reason the big cruisers are going with the VP pod drives, far more effective.

This is not new Engineering, just a new application.

Suck, blow, push , pull.... not always equal.

TX H210SS · **Joined:** Thu May 27, 2010 9:10 am **Posts:** 1488

According to boat.com fourwwinns announced there is no addition or deletion in performance of the forward facing duo prop as compared to the standard duo prop. The only caviat was the tighter turn radius, reversing manueverabilty and prop distance from those in water.

I don't run my boat at 2/3 tilt and wouldn't with that setup either. There not much out on this system in way of review, I will say at full tilt my prop is under water....not four feet under but its under.

alex8q4 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:22 pm

This is has been fun, if you don't see the difference in forward facing props that's that.

TX H210SS · **Joined:** Thu May 27, 2010 9:10 am **Posts:** 1488

Actually I have a PhD in aquatic engineering and helped develop the deep water submersible used on the Calypso research vessel.

Not really...I don't know squat and just making uneducated assumptions. I do know it looks expensive, but am interested in the wake plate idea. Never thought that was possible on stern drive, but obviously it is.

Jdpber · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:45 am

i already hate this design.

so you realize you are about to hit ground and you trim up fast to try and save the drive. But wait you just deployed the stern ripper like on a bull dozer to act as your anchor, this instantly plows into the ground and tears the drive out of your ass end.

where as a traditional drive rises higher and is flat and snag free on the bottom allowing you to skip over the sand bar and avoid totally f***ing the ever-loving shit out of your boat..

I will not get into the negatives of trailering like a train track or sped bumps. Remember the higher seated boat for drive clearance.. OOOPS now your boat will no longer fit in your garage. And the HOA nazi is forcing you to stop your boat in some remote location where piloging pirates can easily keep the treasures within your ship..

SO this drive is retarded. their that is all that anyone needs to know about this POS..

LouC · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:56 am

I agree I do not like it at all.
I would love to see a modern adaptation of a keel drive inboard for boats under 25'.
Add full closed cooling and a bow thruster for the ultimate low maintenance salt water boat.

Keel Drive=protection for running gear, safer than typical inboard struts.

Jdpber · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:24 am

i am content with a io OB or V drive.. but this shit here is bonkers.

and will catch a crab pod line or trot line in a hot second where if i don't see and accidentally hit one my skeg 99% of the tie deflects it.

LouC · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:33 am

If that gets tangled in a lobster pot line you ain't cutting it off without going in the drink.
This is one reason why I do not want any kind of extended swim platform.
This thing after thinking it over manages to have the drawbacks of both I/Os and straight inboards.
Complexity and poor shallow water flexibility.
I'd love to see a dual prop straight inboard.

RotaryRacer · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:04 pm

LouC wrote:

Complexity and poor shallow water flexibility.
I'd love to see a dual prop straight inboard.

How would a counter rotating shaft that is a minimum 36" long contribute to simplicity? Sounds like a nightmare.

The strut and associated hardware would be just as expensive and complicated as a lower unit on an i/o.

LouC · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:18 pm

Its done in aircraft, isn't it. Look at some of the complex all wheel drive systems that are available in autos and SUVs today.
An inboard strut or keel drive configuration does not have to steer, or tilt. Those are the complexities that make an I/O more expensive to repair than a straight shaft drive, that and having so much aluminum in the water.
I've never seen it done, but would like to hear from engineers about the issues in doing it.
If we can have duo prop I/Os then with proper balancing we should be able to have duo prop inboards. Thus avoiding the high price of repairs for I/Os, and giving inboards better manuverability which is their main problem if in single engine configuration.
While it would add cost, lets add up what it would cost to replace one of these forward facing drives. If you hit something with the leverage of the forward facing prop, it could well crack the transom mount and the repair bill could top 12-15 grand. As I said in another post if you buy one make sure to have good insurance.

Yamaha tried this for outboards:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... ard.html#b

Jdpber · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:45 pm

be easier to just do a vertical chain drive for the counter rotation.. hahahahaha

well all of the V and straight drive ski and wake boats i have been on, operated, ridden behind in the many competitions and teams over the past 15 years nothing beats them. leave them single prop and move on to a diff topic. they simply work. and they work well.

RotaryRacer · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:24 pm

LouC wrote:

An inboard strut or keel drive configuration does not have to steer, or tilt. Those are the complexities that make an I/O more expensive to repair than a straight shaft drive...

Actually it is the 2 90-degree turns the power/torque needs to take to get to the prop shaft. The u-joints are actually pretty simple....and those are what allow the tilt and steering.

All i/os have that.

The prop shaft on the duo prop is probably one of the more complex/expensive systems on the boat. You have two concentric contra-rotating shafts that are gear driven on one end and have splined ends to affix props to at the other end. You have bearings, gears and seals that all need to be in perfect alignment etc.

Now make your shaft 36-48" long (or longer depending on the boat) and think about how one of the shafts needs to be hollow and also think about the fact you need a gear box on one end that will cause the shafts to "contra-rotate" and then think about the seals and bearings at the end where the props attach and it gets to be pretty complicated.

Flyindutchman · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:08 pm

Well, while the 'design' might not be for everyone...I think the intended functionality is perfect for me. I've been tempted to trade for a Malibu/Mastercraft/Tigé for 2 seasons now but if this new TS222 can work as advertised, I think I am 100% interested. We boat on the same lake all summer long and play in mostly the same bays so risk of damage is minimal. It's more about play than touring for us. Also, our local Four Winns Dealer has been excellent to deal with for any issues so if they can supply, that would be a great option. Just need to see what the pricing is going to be...

Graham R · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:27 pm

Re duoprops, it's quite surprising they don't show up on outboards ( I vaguelly remember seeing it mentioned in an article once that it was available. on a certain brand of outboard).

I am having a change of heart re I/O vs I/B. Now the boat I have is too heavy to be towed in the UK ( max 3,500 kg for the whole towed rig) the boat lives some 100 miles away. Getting time to do the maintenance is difficult, let alone any improvements. Anything with less maintenance would be a plus ! ( also another big negative was that the marina didn't sell petrol (gas) and I was forever filling/ carrying Jerrycans of the stuff. Now I bought a diesel, they do sell it !)

www.iFourWinns.com

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