www.iFourWinns.com

Sierra,

Sounds like you are settling into your boat nicely. Congratulations.

I like your mockup on the TV. I've been thinking about doing the same thing. I've been thinking about doing the same thing with a TV on the wall next to the companionway. I would like to display a couple of things there potentially, firstly TV, secondly a computer (laptop in one of the cabinets in the aft berth, and finally the E-80 off the helm. I've been looking at an articulated mount that gives you about 30 degrees of motion in all directions. I think that will probably be enough for me.

I'm also curious about how you've got display to a TV in the salon from the e80 right now. Did you have to run any wiring or is the factory now doing some of the integration? I've created a cabling pathway from the helm to the cabinet with the TV that comes down from the helm in the corner by the aft cabin and the bathroom. I then go back over the top of the mould for the bathroom to the side of the coffeemaker cabinet and in. Don't know if you'll need to do anything similar but it was the best pathway I could find.

Ben

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2001 Cruisers 4450
Volvo TAMD-74P 480hp Diesels

Thanks Ben.
A couple of thoughts on the bigger flat panel by the companionway. Per my dealer's recommendation (and I fully agree), we're going to wait 'till FW releases their spec on how they'll be doing that install on the '09's. There will obviously be parts customized for the job that will encompass the R&D that went into making sure everything will be secure and functional. An articulating arm would be great, but you'll need to make sure the TV can lock securely in a fixed position to handle the inevitable shock it will sustain. I'm guessing FW will do some kind of build-out like Sea Ray and others do to house the mount structure and allow for a secure, flush installation. I'm sure a custom marine electronics shop with this kind of experience could get it done, but it's not important enough to me right now to go down that road.
On the E80 out to the current TV, the dealer did the cable run (it's a simple connection from the E80's video out to the TV's RGB in). I don't have details on how he did the run, but if I have the opportunity to speak directly with the tech who did it I will ask. It is really sharp and I told my dealer he should recommend it to all of his cruiser customers.
The only issue I'm having with the TV at the moment are low-level horizontal waves running bottom to top, especially visible when the on-screen image is dark. This is apparent with both the DVD and the E80 image (no cable or TV reception where I shook down the boat). My limited knowledge in this area tells me it may be a voltage issue, possibly particular to this marina, and I'll keep and eye on it when it gets to my home port (it just now occurred to me I should have tried it off the genny). Or maybe it's the TV.

_________________
Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

I have the DVD output going to the E-80. I never, ever use it. It's just not a very conducive position for watching a DVD. You can't see it from anywhere but RIGHT AT the helm station. Not from the cockpit, not from the port lounger... only from the two helm seats. Oh, and you can't get full screen on it either.

I tried running a cable around and over the head. I gave up. There's no way to get the wire up and over the corner at the starboard aft end of the head enclosure. Well, I guess by pulling apart all sorts of cabinetry in the mid-cabin you *might* be able to do it. But, ugh, waaaay too much trouble. You could also run it inside the engine compartment. Down the starboard gunwale, along the forward engine bulkhead and then up along inside the port gunwale to the bulkhead behind the breaker panel. You WILL need fiberglass extension rods to feed the cabling along the gunwales.

It can be done. But I took a shortcut, literally. I put a 1" hole through the decking underneath the helm. I bought a DeWalt right-angle drill and a very shallow hole saw just for this purpose. As an aside, I looooooove the DeWalt right-angle drill. I've completely replaced my other regular drills with it. It's very convienient, not cheap, but absolutely worth having.

You need a 1" hole in order to fit the VGA, RS-232 connectors through it. You could get by with a smaller hole if you had ends put on the cables after the install. I didn't feel like the hassle of putting together and HD15 VGA connector, too many wires. Video into the E-80 would only require a single RCA connection and that could come over coax. But with video and ethernet you're still looking at least a 1/2" hole. Might as well just jump up to 1" and avoid the hassles.

Back to the wiring, from that hole I ran across the ceiling over to the breaker cabinet. This was a helluva lot easier than any of the other alternatives. I used a rubber grommet to seal up the hole once I got the wires through it. The area under the helm is not exposed to water. But I used the gromment just to be sure. Through that hole I ran a video feed to the E-80 along with RS-232 (for NMEA 0180) and ethernet (for sat weather and software). I've found little use for either the video or the NMEA feed. The weather box is down inside the breaker cabinet. It's there so it can share a single antenna feed with the sat radio box. This works nicely.

I also ran a VGA cable down from the E-80 and to a converter box for the TV. This is also useless. The picture through a s-video converter box (and I used a good one) just isn't clear enough to be watchable. I could've used a component converter box to take the VGA signal and run component into the TV. But then I looked into running the cabling for it and it just wasn't worth the hassle. I don't think the 15" sharp Aquos had a VGA input. (the connectors are a bitch to access anyway). Yours looks to be a different model than mine and may have a VGA connector. That would be much better than converting. I take it you select a different AUX input to see the chart plotter?

I notice you've got the fish finder option. nice. I could see where it'd be useful to be able to see what's under the boat. I might add it next season. Given we've got a new baby on the way it's not like I'm going to have a lot of extra time for gadgets on that boat. Other than the TV it's going to be a 'just use it as-in' season.

At this point if I had to run cabling from the breaker panel over to the TV I'd probably go down through the bilge area. There's enough room and openings through there to run things a lot easier than up and over the ceiling. As for water, if you get enough water in your bilge for it to be a problem then you have MUCH BIGGER problems on your hands. I may have to do this if I add a TV to the forward stateroom (we have the wall option). The starboard side cabinet is where I'd likely mount it. I'm still debating how to best mount it so I could share the TV between there and the cockpit.

So if you haven't done it already, you may want to second guess why you think having DVD viewing at the helm has any real usefulness. For me, it's useless. I'm planning on putting a TV up on the port arch instead. That will be a lot more conducive to sitting in the cockpit and watching a DVD.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

I like how it's set up on the 318. The put a cabinet on the forward wall of the head. Over where the 348 has what we refer to as "the spice rack" cabinet. You can't put one there on the 358 as that would block how the coffee maker cabinet opens. They *could* do it with an easy change to the hinge on that door. Just move the hinge to the left (forward) a bit, enough to give clearance for a TV on the aft galley wall. I considered this. The coffee maker could be moved to the left enough to allow for it. But that would still leave the TV at too high a viewing angle for watching from the sofa. Nearly all powerboats make this mistake, go figure.



If you can get to the connector panel on the TV then try it with a portable video device like another DVD player or a camcorder's video output. Disconnect the other cables when trying it. Run it from it's own battery power, not off the boat's systems. That'll narrow down if it's the TV or not. It may be a grounding issue. That's often the culprit for video issues like that. I'm guessing you're also on shore power? Turn off the charger breaker and see if that's making the noise. Then disconnect the shore power. That'll take the charger's AC-DC inverter out of the loop.

Oh, and I didn't read yours is cabled into the RGB input, yes that's going to give a much nicer picture. They could run the cable along the inside of the starboard gunwale all the way up from the helm. There's a bulkead near the head that'll be a bit tricky but not impossible. I would be interested to hear how the techs ran it.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Are you talking the edge along the port side of the stairway? If so, the glass in LCD screens and elbows or knees won't mix very well. One slip by a guest and it'd likely smash the screen. If you're willing to lose the inside of that cabinet (the tall one next to the breaker) then you could fashion some sort of recessed cabinet for it. There is enough room inside that cabinet to make it possible if that tall cabinet were sacrificed. You'd have to use a larger arm, and be sure to stow it when using the steps. For me, that cabinet is where the Waring professional blender goes so it's not a sacrifice I'd willingly make! Not unless I found room for a margarita slushy machine...

I've considered a TV on the wall of the head (facing the steps) but it too suffers from the risk of getting a shoulder put through it. About the only thing that'd really work would be a pop-up from inside the galley countertop. The low edge of the galley is about the max height you'd want a TV for viewing from the sofa. I shudder to think what THAT would cost. Or I might just have the spice rack cabinet redone to put an articulating arm inside of it. Open it and pull out the TV. To get the max size TV it'd have to be a rotating arm to allow stowing the TV vertically. Yeah.... not gonna happen THIS season.

You're not running that laptop inside a completely closed cabinet, are you? You'll cook it. I run one from the cabinet just above the sofa (the one under the window). There's enough convection circulating air from below the sofa and up to the windows to keep it from getting too hot.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

The flow rate on Lowrance's EP-10 is listed in their documentation as follows:


That's one per engine. So you'd be able to hemorrhage up to NINETY gallons per hour through a pair of them. It's a bit hard to find fuel flow rate information for the engines. The closest I could find (granted, I didn't search exhaustively) was a figure for per-injector pounds per hour figures. Not quite as useful as the conversion calculation didn't make sense. Put it to you this way, I've got them on my 6.0's in a 348 and it'll still hit the same WOT speed at the same utterly horrendous GPH figures as before I installed them.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Bill, sorry I wasn't clearer. I'm considering the same place Sierra showed in his mockup, the wall with the companion way door, right above the aft cabin. It's the only place on the boat I can see where the TV can stay mounted without having to work out a rube goldberg esque mount.



I'd most likely put the laptop in the port side cabinet in the aft cabin, you know those really short, wide and deep cabinets above your head if you sit in the aft cabin. The rear of the cabinets are open to the engine room. I'll either put vents in the front of the cabinet or the rear. I'll also put the power supply for the laptop in the mechanical area that houses the vacuum cleaner, stereo amp and other misc. electrics to keep a little heat out of the cabinet. My biggest application for the computer is to watch TV via slingbox since my marina doesn't have cable or a clear view of the southwest sky for satellite.

Ben

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2001 Cruisers 4450
Volvo TAMD-74P 480hp Diesels

I was actually worried about the quality of the off-brand 'Sole' but I find the picture quality to be comparable to the Sony they used to use (I have the same Sony in my kitchen). It's nice that it has a variety of inputs which are all accessible when the galley cabinet housing the TV is open and they are selectable by one touch buttons on the remote or from the joystick on the front of the TV. As my picture shows, the E80 through the PC input produces a crystal clear image.

The depth sounder module is great to have - it came with the E80 package and I believe it may come with the C80 setup as well.

_________________
Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

I would think it a very bad idea to open a vent from the engine compartment into the cabin. Now, a cabin isn't a hermetically sealed compartment, that's for sure. But you really, really do not want to introduce any new ways for carbon monoxide or even just nasty engine room smells to get into the cabin area. You'd be better off venting the door to the cabinet, not the back of the cabinet itself. That and it'd be a whole lot easier to put holes in the door instead of inside that cramped box. You could order a spare door from Four Winns if you're worried about any resale issues.

But personally, I've found the cabinet behind the sofa a better solution. It's very accessible and there's even enough gap to allow sneaking a couple of cables around the cabinet frame to behind the breaker panel. You can even snake a cable up between the shelf gap and the hull near the window to get an AC cable up to the socket located there. I've got a laptop and an cellular wifi router stashed there. Works nicely.

If you use that cabinet from where would you expect to pull AC power for that laptop? Along those lines, I find it's better to just use a 12v adapter for your laptop. The kind that go in a cigarette lighter socket. I put some extra ones on our boat just for this purpose. Then I leave the power supplies on the boat... one less thing to carry from home, right?

If you're looking for a good 'permanent' mounting space look behind the sofa. It's annoying how much space is wasted back there. But the only think back there is the 6" AC duct for the forward berth. There's plenty of room there to mount gear on the sofa supports. The screws around the top/side edges of the sofa back are all that holds it in place.

I've stashed a couple extra things in that vacuum space. I've got the sirius weather unit, an ethernet hub and a video distribution amp (useless video to the E-80). It's actually quite a pain in the ass to get into that space to do mounting of this sort. But the step support unscrews quite easily and it's WELL worth the effort to remove it should you need to get into this space for anything complex. Trust me, the time you'd waste trying to contort yourself to work in that space would be FAR MORE than the time to R&R the steps (voice of experience here). This is where a full battery charge on my 'beloved' right-angle drill comes in VERY handy.

_________________
-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

A few shots from my shakedown weekend -

_________________
Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

Bill,

I had some of the same concerns about cutting a hole in the back of the cabinets, though I also did notice the cabinets are constructed such that there are already air gaps in the back of them. If you lie on the port gas tank and look through the back of the cabinets you can see light from in the cabin in a few seams. I'd considered the area behind the couch, but if the laptop locks up and I have to reset I'd hate to have to remove the couch to do so. I'm not at all bothered by cutting a few holes in the front cabinet door. I'd use some speaker cloth or something similar to finish it and make it look decent. The beauty of the location in the port aft cabin is that I've already figured out a pretty short wiring run from there to the TV mounting location. I've got a pull string in place already by going through the loosely gathered vinyle the wall is lined with and then under the headliner. Fiberglass "fishing poles" (wire pulling type like you mentioned earlier) got through there pretty easily and now I've got pulling line in place so I should be able to pull any reasonably sized cord through. As for power I was thinking of powering both the TV and laptop using a Xantrex pro 1000. It's got an automatic transfer switch from 12v to 120 when 120 becomes available. My thought was to use the existing 120 breaker that is in place for the vacuum. I can certainly turn off the TV when I run the vacuum to avoid any issues. For 12v power there is a 12v socket in the vacuum compartment area already so I can use that line. I'd think about doing dedicated breakers (both 12v and 120v) but I can't figure out any graceful way to add them to the boats existing panel. Any suggestions here?

Thanks
Ben

_________________
2001 Cruisers 4450
Volvo TAMD-74P 480hp Diesels

Oh I wasn't talking about putting the laptop behind the couch, just other gear that has no controls. Like an amp, sat weather box, etc. Things that can be reset just by toggling a breaker.

I was thinking of the cabinet above the couch. Not the one all the way up, just the short one below the window. You found a "short" way to get from the PORT side cabinet all the over to the STARBOARD side TV in the galley cabinet?

I wouldn't bother with tying into the 120vac circuit at all. Just get a 12vdc power supply. Vendors like Kensington, iGo and others make them. They're actually a bit more efficient than a AC-DC inverter, not that we really care "that much" on a powerboat. There's no need to switch back from 12v to 120vac since that's what the battery charger will do for you. 12v socket in the vacuum area? Where? Or do you mean up on that little bulkhead wall facing aft from the mid-cabin? The one with the phone outlet?

Yeah, there's no extra room in the breaker panels and that's a problem. I'd like to add a couple of 12vdc breakers to allow finer control over some of the accessories. But there's just no place on the main panel to do it. At least not on the 348. That and I really don't see another place that'd be any more convenient. I've been considering putting one just above the opening for the vacuum. I'd have to move the sirius radio black box and other stuff I've already got in there. I'd go with something covered as that location would still be a risk for someone's shoe smacking it while going up the steps.

I know the breaker panels are very different on the newer 358s but I don't know enough about them (or what's BEHIND them) to offer suggestions. That and the newer boats also put a breaker panel under the helm seat, mine does not have that; just the main panel in the cabin. The transom battery switch panels have changed too.

I'd think your plan to tie into the vacuum circuit would be a reasonable compromise if you needed to use AC.

For my networking gear I stole the 'overboard discharge' circuit. Since I have no macerator this was unused. Now it controls my wifi router, cell router and a couple of other small drain devices.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Sorry, not the stock TV mounting location, but rather the location I'm considering using which is the same one Sierra mocked up, the same wall with the companionway door. Though, if I had to go from the port cabinet to the TV I'd go out the back of the cabinet, through the engine room, up through the helm, down the hole I drilled from the helm to the cabin (sounds very similar to what you did), over the head and into the cabinet, but you said short so that doesn't really apply. I'm wanting the inverter to power the 22" TV I'm looking at. It only has a 120v input and I'd like to be able to use underway on 12v power. I guess I could make it a generator only item but I'm not in love with that. I pretty rarely run the generator so I'd hate to have to fire it up while on the hook just to run the TV. I do indeed mean the 12v socket on the wall of the vacuum area facing aft into the mid-cabin.

Ben

_________________
2001 Cruisers 4450
Volvo TAMD-74P 480hp Diesels

Oh, NOW I follow you. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm with you, we generally only run our genset for two situations... making coffee in the morning and blender drinks in the afternoon. It would be annoying to have to run it to watch TV at night. I have a killer waring pro blender, none of that sissy 12v nonsense, this thing will practically chew up rocks, so ice is easy. But it'd be a battery killer.

What wattage does that TV draw? I had to add two 6V batteries to our 348 to handle all afternoon on the hook, fridge running, watching a DVD and then overnight with the chart plotter running. If you're talking about adding that TV you may end up needing to increase your batteries. I'm guessing the single type 27 systems battery isn't going to cut it.

Adding the batteries was a chore but not terribly difficult. In an inboard setup there's a shelf at the aft-most portion of the engine compartment. It's in the empty space inside the swim platform. I put a pair of 6vdc golf cart style batteries back there. Each in it's own battery box. This because there's just enough room to get a battery in there past the exhaust mufflers. That and trying to leverage anything heavier that just one at a time would be a back-breaker. I just wired them up in series and then paralleled into the ships system battery. Now I get all weekend long on 12vdc. I'd say the whole job ran me under $250 total (and my time).

I'm guessing an I/O setup would have enough room elsewhere in the engine compartment for a couple of batteries. I went with the 6v golf cart style because of their general ability to handle vibration and slow, all day draining.

_________________
-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista