www.iFourWinns.com

I know that most here on this board don't have an outboard, but I'm hoping someone may have some outboard experience.

Last night I started some maintenance that I wasn't able to get done before out boating trip this past weekend. Was going to change the impeller, impeller housing, and change out the gear oil. Pulling the lower unit off is fairly easy, so that wasn't a problem. When I pulled the drain plug out for the gear oil is when I saw the water. It was maybe 8 oz or so...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2EHJyK5Ax7FxC-CxNKwrYcG1hWnmRWcoRxmFEb_TuVRYrJYDiLn-A08xURCSgzCV4Amnyqt6c9oCvauNNQlYH1c_vf8sFEUYiAjOv0BHtaOL3ahJfhoNnjqxB3tFHTziladGzW39hg=w2400
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aT3MlzZikvtC6-8wKhd1nCS7hm9x4-WGQDhqzmX-kNv0R8qyDrBh7lissRDm2RRf3cgEfCl-jYqiBjj2lPZBNYejKybHH5eLzcy2jq_y4ovE26Ghv-8fH1xzS7hpA6H7zBFFHXqOlw=w2400

Drain plugs didn't have any chips or metal pieces on them of any appreciable size. I was able to rub the oil off the plugs on my fingers without getting splinters. But the oil was not milky. It was black, but the water was not mixed in with the oil. ?? (It had been sitting for a day at the house, though)

So, I know I need new seals and I'll be tracking those down today. Does anybody have experience with changing out the prop shaft seal? Advice, special tricks?

Any suggestions on a way to flush out the old, black gear oil before I put new stuff in it? I left it to drain out overnight, but I'd like to try and clean as much of it out as I can.

Thanks in advance! This is kind of my go-to forum, so I'm asking questions here first.

_________________
1999 180 Horizon OB Fisherman Pkg (SOLD)
2013 Grand Cherokee 4x4 w/ 5.7 Hemi
San Antonio, TX

Ok for good outboard information, post up on:
http://www.thehulltruth.com
or, the Evinrude/Johnson forum at iboats
either place has a lot of outboard experts.

However, what I'd have done...would be to change the gear oil but make sure to use new fiber washers, because your leak could be as simple as that. Then if you still get water in the gear oil you need to either buy or rig up a pressure/vacuum tester and find the leak, could be prop shaft seals, could be the driveshaft seal where it goes into the bearing carrier, could be the shift shaft seal. Now that you got the lower off, might as well get a pressure/vac tester and have at it.
My Cobra uses the same fiber washers for the drain/fill plugs. I've been changing them every time I do the gear oil and the last time this drive was re-sealed....was way back...in 2006!

PS really thinking hard of selling my old FW and getting a Key West 20' Dual Console boat. My big decision...which outboard...leaning toward Evinrude but then you always hear the stories, everyone seems to think Yamaha and Suzuki are made of gold, but even they have problems. I'm ultimately going to go with what the mechanics tell me. I just cannot get another I/O boat...too much maintenance and down time. Around here its so obvious....the OBs are the first in the water and the last out....I/Os, poor owners fiddling with this or that...just don't want to do it all over again.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Thanks for the input, Lou!
I've done a lot of "research" over the last couple days. Both on HullTruth and iBoats.

I have a MitiVac hand pump and put it to good use yesterday. Performed both a vacuum and pressure test. The vacuum would hold for about 10 minutes, then start to slowly drop. But if I wiggled the driveshaft, it would drop out immediately. Same with what little movement I could get out of the prop shaft. Pressure test wouldn't hold. It would just slowly leak down. Soapy water indicated that both the driveshaft seal and the prop shaft seals are to blame.

I also pulled about 15 yards of fishing line out from behind the prop. Seal was visibly torn up...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xNsCdkabh6t0gt_Vkvoju69laiR4WeEJkwFrIMe4goCVFhPanKuIn3sNw5Qo64uJ9P0HyNG_vXI8ri_w1RWF7yxCSBhXMufmJaigMcj5CVziLrJVKXFvb2_wqyqBGayY99Pkzalsdw=w2400

I have a few quotes from mechanics to reseal the lower unit as I can just drop it off. Prices range from $225 - $285 for labor and I supply the parts. Dealers won't touch the unit since it is a '98 model...(not sure why, since most Evinrude/Johnson lower ends are very similar if not alike with similar HP's). The smaller business owners have lower shop rates anyway! Heck, the seal kit covers at least 8 different models!

I'd do it myself if I had a way to pull the bearing carrier out. (Wife said no for me getting new tools... )

I should have it back on the motor in a week or two. Just in time for a Mother's Day trip?

_________________
1999 180 Horizon OB Fisherman Pkg (SOLD)
2013 Grand Cherokee 4x4 w/ 5.7 Hemi
San Antonio, TX

UPDATE!

My financial expenditure manager has apparently said YES to a discretionary tool funding budget!!! WooHoo!!!

So it looks like I'm on the learning curve to replacing my own seals! I have the seal kit (came in today). A new water pump kit is already in hand. A few other odds-n-ends, misc. "stuff" and a few well-purchased tools and I'll be good to go! (I think....)

_________________
1999 180 Horizon OB Fisherman Pkg (SOLD)
2013 Grand Cherokee 4x4 w/ 5.7 Hemi
San Antonio, TX

Great report back on your experience!
Knowledge is power!

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Over the last few weeks, I was able to get everything apart and put back together. I ended up pulling the bearing carrier out using a steering wheel puller modified with long pieces of all-thread (courtesy of a video by Dangar Marine in Australia). No cost there!
Bearings showed signs of sitting in water for awhile (most likely due to leaks from last season I didn't know about), so new ones got ordered.
A couple of other orders got me some Evinrude Triple Guard grease (that's truly some sticky stuff right there!), a gasket set, o-ring/gasket sealer, and of course the water-pump/impeller kit.

Total time for the work (not including waiting for parts) was only really about 3-4 hrs. Not bad for my first time tearing into an outboard! Thanks You-Tube!!!

My problem was that by the time I could get all the parts together and then back in the lower unit, I just didn't have the time to make it back out to the boat to get it put back on. Life gets in the way some times...

Finally, this past Saturday I made the time. Got it back on but when I started it up, it was already in gear. Going into Reverse would put it in neutral. I couldn't push the selector forward at all. I figured I had goofed my install of the shifting rod. A little time spent looking at the shift rod connection and I think I had it figured out. Took the lower unit back off, backed the shift rod out 1/4" and then re-installed. Started her back up and the gears were back where they're supposed to be!

Total cost in parts is just under $175, including the all-thread I needed to buy. I had been quoted between $250-300 for labor alone (I supply the parts) to have someone else do the work for me, so I think I ended up on the right side of this. Plus I gained some knowledge in working on my boat. That's always a plus in my book!

_________________
1999 180 Horizon OB Fisherman Pkg (SOLD)
2013 Grand Cherokee 4x4 w/ 5.7 Hemi
San Antonio, TX

Yes you have the knowledge. One day you can have your own you tube channel too!
it is great being able to be partly independent from mechanics, isn't it?
I have not had my boat back to a mechanic in many years, including the top end over haul I did 2 years ago (2 re-man heads, all new gaskets, new exhaust system--center riser conversion, rebuilt Quadrajet carb). I have had the drive apart (split upper and lower) to clean out the water intake area and replace melted water tube gaskets melted by an overheat. But I've never done lower unit seals.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I don't know about a YouTube channel... that might take away too much of the family-time.

Oh yeah! That's a whole other level of awesome right there! Growing up, my Dad used to rebuild wrecked cars for a living. He used to have drag/threaten/beat (etc.) to get me to help him and learn something. (I did learn a little about bodywork, though). Then in college, I got the bug to fix old stuff (finally). I remember having to learn on old motorcycles without the internet and just asking questions of anybody you could find. Lots of trial & error also. I've broke my fair share of stuff that didn't need breaking, but that's the process sometimes. But, I've come to the point of not really being scared of working on anything. If someone else can work on it for me, then why can't I work on it myself? I trust myself more than some guy I don't know! My biggest limitation over the years has been tools/equipment. I just don't have enough room or money to buy all the tools I could need! Sometimes time is a limiting factor also, but not often. We always have a spare vehicle just in case one of the daily's goes down and it takes me a few days to get it fixed.


Don't be scared! Heck, you replaced the entire floor of your boat! That's a big job! Lower unit seals are easy beyond that...

My wife is a teacher and a librarian and she tells her kids all the time "You should never stop learning." I keep that in my mind every time I face a new mechanical challenge!

_________________
1999 180 Horizon OB Fisherman Pkg (SOLD)
2013 Grand Cherokee 4x4 w/ 5.7 Hemi
San Antonio, TX

Good thoughts! we are in salt water and the challenge always is....'will it come apart'...the work I have done, I was able to get it all apart and used either OMC gasket sealer or Permatex Aviation sealer on the bolt threads, they keep out water and that prevents corrosion. When I did the top end overhaul, I didn't think the head bolts would come out or would break because it was a raw water cooled inboard in salt water. Well I charged up my De Walt 1/2" drive impact gun and it took them all out none broke. I check the gear oil for water every time I change it but so far so good.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tr23hyy6srwfn ... l.JPG?dl=0
intake removed

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2pu8ac8x71e5u ... l.JPG?dl=0
starboard head removed

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jiuwl6tcr17k1 ... l.JPG?dl=0
port head removed

when you get to this point, you wonder if it will really ever get put back together.....
then......

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1yyytu26xgohe ... 1.JPG?dl=0
re-man heads installed

https://www.dropbox.com/s/55j6h4dd1u8fv ... 3.MOV?dl=0
all back together, running...

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Quick follow-up...

Decided to put the boat in the water Father's Day morning before everything got crowded. Started right up, but the gears were grinding like crazy going into reverse.

Got it over to the dock, tied up, and then took the cover off to try and see what was going on. A quick fine-adjustment on the linkage cable where it comes into the engine cowling and we were back in business! Shifting great.

Spent about 4 hrs just cruising around Medina Lake and she was running awesome! We didn't even get in the water & swim, just enjoyed lazily cruising around!

_________________
1999 180 Horizon OB Fisherman Pkg (SOLD)
2013 Grand Cherokee 4x4 w/ 5.7 Hemi
San Antonio, TX