www.iFourWinns.com

I was just thinking the only thing that would make oil come out of the exhause would be the oil cooler/exchanger. as long as you didn't run the motor out of oil and it is all ok you will be fine. but since you had no oil and a low oil pressure light I have a feeling a sad day is coming. Hopefully not. Im crossing my fingers for you

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Four winns 180 horizon

Just curious, apart from firing up the motor, what would be the best way to check for damage fom a low oil level condition, pull the head and inspect the cylinders, or is the bottom end more at risk?

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2007 Horizon 200
4.3L GXi/ SX 225 HP

Hey guys...

I am taking the number of the motor to the dealer today so he can order the right cooler apparently there are two different styles available. Mine had no evidence of a part number.



I hope the motor is OK too! I did run it pretty low on oil but there was nothing I could do! I will reinstall the cooler, drain all the water/oil mixture thats in the engine and put fresh fluid in it. I'll run it for a couple of hours then change the oil again to hopefully remove any of the remaining water and then hope for the best...

I don't want to get into all this work right now.. I know of no other way than to let the motor run and either listen for odd sounds or pull the motor and take it apart but even that may not show damage immediately... It may take some run time for bearings, oil pump etc.. to fail. You are right, the bottom end is a greatest risk.

As long as it gets me through the season... Maybe this winter I will have to pull it and rebuild the bottom end but I hope not... I bought "turnkey" boats because I didn't want to have to fix them all the time because I don't have enough time with my job.

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Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

Bottom end woes are your greatest concerns with moisture in an engine (boat, car or otherwise).

You probably already know this but here's the low-down (pun intended). The crankshaft sits between two thin metal sleeves, aka the main bearings. There's a very small hole at the top/bottom of these bearings in through which oil is pumped under pressure. If any moisture gets in there and allows surface rust to form you're screwed. Same thing if any dirt gets into those oil passages and blocks them. If the bearing is deprived of oil for even the most brief of periods it can 'spin'. This then completely blocks the oil holes and you're doomed. The bearing itself is shot, but if it seriously overheats it'll destroy the crankshaft too. Parts can literally BREAK THROUGH the engine block.

If a bearing spins it usually requires a massive amount of work, starting with pulling the engine out of the boat. Sometimes it's possible to have the crankshaft turned to provide a fresh surface. But unless you're dealing with a blueprinted motor (aka race engine) it's usually cheaper/faster to simply repower. Either by a 'short' or 'long' block, not necessarily a 'whole' engine.

But short of pulling the engine and inspecting the parts I don't think there's a good way to "know" if there's any damage.

This is why it's CRITICALLY important to IMMEDIATELY get water out of the engine oil if it ever happens. Air and water inside the oiled areas is a BAD thing. Even an engine that's sunk is better off staying in the water for an extra day rather than pulling it and leaving it sit with water in the engine. But it's "better off" only in the realm of requiring a total rebuild versus being completely seized due to rust and unable to be rebuilt. The latter won't even get you a core exchange for a remanufactured engine. It's then basically good for little more than a mooring ball anchor (suitably degreased, of course).

So any time you see 'milky' discoloration to the oil you need to be getting that oil out of there and replaced with new oil ASAP. Even if it takes using a drill powering an external oil pump to force the oil through. There are various ways to do this, through the oil sender fitting, the distributor, etc. It's a lot of work, to be sure, but the alternative of replacing the engine is a LOT worse. That and changing the oil SEVERAL times during the first few days to be sure it's all new. Better to 'waste' a few gallons of oil during the flushing process rather than repowering, right?

I'm guessing your best best is to get that oil changed asap. Drain it, manually turn the engine over (or just the starter for a few minutes) and repeat until there's no discoloration. Do NOT let the engine start itself during this process. Disconnect the coil and power to the fuel pump so it can't start itself.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

I gave the serial number to my parts guy and they (he &Volvo Penta) came up with a different part number... I hope it's the right one first time. I bought a hand operated oil evacuator yesterday also. It was raining last night so I didn't get down to the boat but I don't think I will drain until I have installed the new part. I am trying to assemble all the necessary components now.

What weight of oil do you think I should be using? The VP manual calls for their brand of Duraplus but does not give weight. I bought some Quaker State synthetic High Torque for $19 a gallon last night it's 10W30. I was going to buy some cheap oil for my initial run and flush then change to the synthetic.

If everything shows up as expected, i'm hoping to change out the parts and do the drain and re-fill Friday night with a Saturday morning run into town for some shopping at the farmer's market and then back home. That will be about an hour and a half of total running time and when I get home, I will drain the oil again and replace the filter and put in the synthetic.

_________________
Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

I use Rotella T 5W40 Synthetic....they also have a 10W40 dino oil sold at wally world...

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2007 358 T-5.7GXi IB
Previous Boats
'08 H240, '08 V318, '04 268, '04 225

Using the cheap oil to do the flush is a good plan. No sense in wasting a lot of money just to have it get flushed out. I'm assuming you're also talking about replacing the filter likewise?

When you speak of a 'morning run' is that with the boat? I don't know that I'd take the boat for any sort of run. Why push the issue? Isn't it better to take the time now (and even more cheap oil) to clean it thoroughly? That instead of putting a load on the engine and raising the risk of further damage. Or even just letting it sit at idle, it certainly doesn't need to run any longer than 10 minutes, max. I'm not the over-cautious type, but you already know the horrendous expense of a repower, why run that risk... again?

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Sorry I missed a step there, the 1 1/2 hr run would be on my second change of oil to help evaporate any of the final amounts of water remaining in the system. I was planning on changing the oil filter and oil once the motor had been run for fifteen or twenty minutes.

Here is the plan
1- Reinstall the oil cooler.
2- Suck out as much oil/water mixture as possible through the dipstick. May have to pull drain plug into a tray in bilge if not satisfied with evacuation method. I have oil absorbing pads on hand in case.
3-Refill oil with standard 10W30 and change filter.
4-Run motor up to temp and watch pressure. (15-20 minutes at idle or slightly above)
5-Evacuate oil and pull filter.
6-Refill oil with standard 10W30 and change filter.
7-Let boat run again for ten or so minutes.... Check condition of oil ie. milky: if milky, go back to step 5.
8-Take boat for 1 to 1 1/2 hr run (if I am confident with the condition of oil)
9-Evacuate oil and pull filter.
10- Refill with Synthetic 10W30 oil and change filter.
11- Enjoy boat for the rest of the season!

_________________
Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

Steps 1-4 completed last night. It took me three hours! re-installing the oil cooler took two of those!!! It is in one B*TCH of a spot. You have to be a contortionist to hold the cooler up while you start the bolts on the bracket and the threaded hoses are located so that you can only get an 1/8 turn (if that) each time after you have fought to get the threads started.

My oil evacuator seemed to go nice and deep into the oil pan and sucked out all the water on the bottom first then the "skummy" oil/water emulsion. I ran the boat up to temp and let it idle for ten minutes and there only seems to be one tappet that may be bad. I am still expelling an oil slick but that is just what is left in the cooling water lines (I hope). Oil level did not drop significantly.

Care to guess how many gallons of water a big block chevy holds?

I pulled two evacuators full, 6.6 gallons, (3.3 each time) of water and another 2.5-3 of emulsified oil/water!!!! I could not believe it! I guess that's why they need 9 quarts for an oil change!
I added new oil, filter and turned the motor over without starting then let the oil sit for ten or so minutes before I checked it then started the motor.

I am hoping that any remaining water will be able to be removed tonight before I start the motor then I will change the filter and run it up to temp again before changing the oil again.

Next step would be sea trials for a couple of hours but... AGAIN this weekend we are calling for miserable weather so we are going to travel to the US and stay overnight for some shopping and relaxation by the pool at the hotel.

I'll keep you all posted as I progress

_________________
Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

If it were me I think I'd be swayed to do another cheap oil change, just for kicks. But who knows. My fingers are all crossed for you .

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Hey Guys, I just got home and realized that my evacuator is only a 1.9 gallon or 7.7 litre model. I had converted using 2.2 which is for pounds! So the motor held around 5.5 to 6 gallons of water and skum. Thought I would correct that before somebody caught me on it and made me look like a BS'er!



There is no such thing as a cheap oil change when you have to buy 9 quarts plus a filter (45$total) I will take it step by step and evaluate my situation as I go ... The oil seemed fairly clear with no evidence of water in the oil last night...I will insert my evacuator and see what gets drawn up tonight just for fun.. The suction tube gets right down in the bottom where the water would settle so it's a good indicator. I plan on doing two more oil changes and I would hope that is sufficient.

_________________
Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

But still cheaper than a repower. I'm getting the impression the water was in there for a couple of days? That's usually not a good plan. But what's done is done I guess. Here's hoping it's all sorted out now.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Well right when I read your first post I was going to jump to the end and tell you to replace your oil cooler!

Glad you found it........

By the way, closed cooling would not necessarily save you here....closed cooled marine engines almost always have the oil cooler in the raw water line (mine is as is most all Mercruisers)

Here's what I do to winterize (and i'm closed cooled)

I ALWAYS put the muffs on the drive and prime the raw side with fresh water. THEN I take the short piece hose I have connected to my muffs and drop into a tub of AF that I put under the drive. I run it allowing the AF to circulate thru the raw side of the heat exchanger and oil/steering coolers, out the risers and dump back into the tub.

This puts 50/50 mix all thru the raw side of the engine and even leaves a little in the drive where it might pool...

As long as you didn't run it for long with no oil pressure, you didn't hurt it and you can consider yourself lucky!! Check your power steering fluid heat exchanger and your manifolds carefully too!



Regards,

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1987 Four Winns Liberator 211, formerly OMC 460 King Kobra powered, replaced in 2006 by a 1997 Mercruiser 454/Bravo III

Keep in mind that if you winterize a raw water cooled sterndrive that way, it is possible that if the thermo does not open all the way you will get a weakened AF mix in the block, full strength in the manifolds. So I would always drain everything, then back fill with AF. I tried the suck the AF up the drive trick the first time, then checked the block drains and what came out was not full strength AF for sure. This method will work fine on an inboard with closed cooling to do just the raw water side. An oil cooler should always have a drain on it, but if they don't, disconnecting the hose, draining it as much as you can and then backfill with full strength -100 will protect them.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

That's a REALLY good point Lou.

In order for it to work with a raw engine you'd have to let it run (with the catch tub collecting all the mix) until the water got fairly hot in the tub probably.

I suppose the absolute best way is to still drain everything..... a wise old man once said "Air Don't Freeze!" (well it does...but not on this planet where we can to breathe it!)

You just have to be absolutely sure you get it all!

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1987 Four Winns Liberator 211, formerly OMC 460 King Kobra powered, replaced in 2006 by a 1997 Mercruiser 454/Bravo III