www.iFourWinns.com

Good Evening,

Background Information - In November of last year we purchased a 1999 Sundowner 205 in a joint venture with another family. Over the winter we have done some work to it, installed a VHF radio, GPS, given it a general good tidy up. We purchased it in the area of Plymouth, UK and drove it back to the North West of the UK.

We recently had to go to a trailer centre about our small car trailer and got talking about our boat trailer and as soon as we mentioned it was a American trailer, we were told it was illegal in the UK because of its width and ball hitch, so we had to stump up £3000 for a new one!!

So on Friday we took the boat to the trailer centre to be lifted from the old trailer onto the new one, and for it to be set up for out boat. Unfortunately it was getting near to "Pub Time" and the final parts of the setting up were done wrong so when we trailed it back to our house and looked at it, the boat had moved forwards to the point that the area just below the drain plug on the keel was resting on a metal edge.

So when we lifted it up on Sunday to set up the trailer again we noticed it had damaged the keel of the boat, the damage has gone through the gel coat and just into a bit of the fibre-glass layers , I have had a motorsport body work engineer look at it today and all he can do is to patch some fibre-glass over it and resin it down, and repeating this process a few times. Is this going to work as a repair?

Also we seem to constantly have wet carpets in our cuddy, we have looked down underneath the cockpit area (the part where a porta-potti would sit) and right towards the back is a hole, should that the bunged up with a bung?

I really need some help fast as we are due to take the boat down to the south coast on saturday and we need to get these things sorted!!

Thanks

Rob

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Rob Sherry
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1999 Sundowner 205

Hi Rob,

Fibreglass repairs really easily, and the nice thing with fibreglass is that the repair is almost structurally as strong as the original. If your man does fibreglass bodies, then a boat is no different so don't worry about this.

Sounds like you got bad info and stiffed a bit on the trailer. In Australia where the motoring laws are all based on UK laws, there are no problems at all with Four Winns trailers. Width limit here is 2.5m - above this you may need to get a permit. As long as the tow ball and tow hitch are rated correctly for the load being towed, then you are OK. For 3000 quid, I would be asking for the trailer guy to pay for the fibreglass repairs his trailer caused..!!

Sorry, can't help you with the water leak...

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Alec

2006 Horizon 190
VP 4.3GL/SX, Sunsport

Found the following that may be useful to you....

http://www.go-sail.co.uk/towing.asp
http://www.torbay.gov.uk/index/leisure/harbours/towing.htm
http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/law/dimensions.htm
http://www.sailingandboating.co.uk/towing-your-boat.html

The last one is iontersting as it sure looks like a Four Winns boat on a Four Winns trailer...!!

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Alec

2006 Horizon 190
VP 4.3GL/SX, Sunsport

Thanks for all the advice, it really helps.

'Oh Damn' regarding the trailer, well we have done it now but there were a few other things like that all the braking system on the trailer was shot, master cylinder and all slave cylinders had basically turned to powder, probably from someone now washing it out.

Also our trailer had a American hitch on it, this is interesting as according to various websites, american towballs are 2 inches and in the UK they are 50mm, apparently the police are very touchy on this as they 'apparently' have had a few trailers jump off. whether it really is going to is debatable though.

Thanks for all your advice.

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Rob Sherry
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1999 Sundowner 205

Rob,

Wow, another FW Sundowner in Cheshire!

The keel in the area you indicate is pretty thick; if the damage to the fibreglass is only slight, you might only need to put some 2 component gel coat filler over it.( e.g. "Plastic Padding" do one). If the trailer company won't pay to get the repair done, at least try to get them to stump up for the gel coat filler. If your engineer is going to glass it, then he should use epoxy, not polyester, as the bond is stronger. What is very important is that you repair it such that you keep the water out.

Re water in the cuddy, I had a '99 225 before the 245 I now have; I'm pretty sure the hole you mention is a drain that does not have a bung in it; when underway/ on the plane, any water would drain via this, underneath the fuel tank then to the bilge. The water could be coming in past the hatch seal , past a cleat/ bow rail / windscreen base or even from the anchor locker; they sometimes do not drain particularly well due to poorly placed drains. If it is via the portholes, you'd probably see water stains on the vinyl. The portapotti reservoir might also be leaking.

Re the trailer; at least now you have all new brakes, bearings, tyres, lights, it's probably galvanized and it's 100% legal. You could have fitted a 50mm ball to the trailer, or a bolt on 2" ball on your towbar ( I think I have one in my garage somewhere; old UK trailers used to use 2" before we went "all metric"!). It's not so much the police that I'd have been worried about; Insurance companies love an excuse to get out of paying! There is actually a market for "illegal" American boat trailers in the UK. They are used as "launching trailers" at caravan sites all over the UK i.e. not used on public roads.So you might be able to recoup some cash.

Graham

Wow, how weird, as they aren't massively popular in the UK, or at least it seems that.

I think I might have it glasses then gel coat it, we have spent a lot of time, (and not a insignificant amount of money) making our boat the way we want it, the last thing we want is something to happen to it, i.e the hull soaking through! I'd rather do the job properly once, rather than doing it many times not as well, just ain't my ethos, if something is worth doing its worth doing it properly!

I have had a though about the water, when we gave the cockpit area a good wash, a lot of water went into the bilges and has yet to be emptied, this is due to the area the boat sits on the trailer, it sits slightly nose down, so when its moved water probably sloshes forward. This will hopefully be solved on saturday when we are going down to Poole, Bournemouth and will take the plug out before we go to let the water drain out!

Yeh good point, I did have a experience once of a trailer we were towing being illegal (some very small pointers that a police checkpoint picked up on) which caused a lot of hassle. Also this new trailer has better features like a hose point for washing out the bearings and removable light bar. Do you know where to advertise the trailer then as apart from the brakes it isn't in bad condition overall?

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Rob Sherry
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1999 Sundowner 205

I asked the same thing here regarding the 50mm towball and the 2" hitch on the trailer... the local Four Winns dealer says this is not a problem at all as 2" = 50.8mm and there is allowince in the coupling for "tolerance" of tow balls and we are talking of less than 2% in this case. I have towed thousands of miles with my 50mm ball over the last few years over some very ordinary roads and never had even a hint of a problem (touch wood).

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Alec

2006 Horizon 190
VP 4.3GL/SX, Sunsport

re selling the trailer, " Boatsandoutboards.com" or Ebay spring to mind. It might also be worth putting an advert in the North Wales newspapers, that way you'll access the considerable caravan site market on that coast. I think the group website is something like "iCnorthwales", I'll check and let you know for sure, you probably don't need it before your trip to Poole!

The allowable tolerance in Europe for a 50mm towball is only +/- 0.78%! (50mm +/- 0.39mm). The only worry I'd have with using a 50mm ball but a 50.8mm socket is wear; it will more quickly reach a critical excessive clearance than a 50/50 mm or a 50.8/50.8.mm combination would. The regulations in Europe are totally stupid sometimes though; I drive the most powerful 3.0 litre V6 Ford Mondeo mk3 model they made, yet it is not homologated for towing even though the attachment points are there for a towbar. It is illegal to even fit a towbar, let alone use it. If I had a 1.6 litre Mondeo, I could fit one!

Don't forget to take the bung with you and put it back in; I almost forgot to fit mine this year before the boat was launched, the first time it has (almost) happened to me!

Graham