www.iFourWinns.com

Dedicated to Current and Future Owners
It is currently Sat May 03, 2025 5:30 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:06 pm 
Offline
268 Vista

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:49 am
Posts: 4989
Location: West Michigan
And remember, FW is also making the small Wellcraft boats at their Cadillac factory as well, so those boats can also be included in the mix.

_________________
One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista
Image
Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:37 am 
Offline
life to the full

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:13 pm
Posts: 699
Location: Adelaide South Australia
Phew that's a relief, mind you I still have to wait about another 6 to 7 weeks for delivery for my H180.
Ardy
South Oz
Ps If anyone knows the captain on the ship with my boat on board and can relay a message for me "DONT SPARE THE HORSES , PUT THE PEDAL TO THE METAL" would be appreciated???

_________________
Ardy
Adelaide South Australia
Red H180 3.0 Merc


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:44 am 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm
Posts: 5688
Location: Long Island NY
Still no outboard powered FWs, which is too bad. For my next boat I most likely will be looking to go OB power because the maintenance in salt water is pretty high. And OB boats hold their value better and are easier to sell here. At one time you could get a 200 Horizon or 205 Sundowner with an OB, same HP as a sterndrive and 450 lbs less weight on the stern. I know fresh water boaters prefer IOs but they are missing some of the market here, not every one in salt water regions wants a fishing style boat (Wellcraft) there is a market for OB powered sport boats and dual purpose fish and skis with OBs.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:25 am 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:10 pm
Posts: 531
Location: North Bay, Ontario Canada
I also wish that there were outboard boats available from FW, even though I am a fresh water boater. The ease of maintaining an outboard (it fully drains when the boat is pulled from the water, no bellows/gimbal bearing/u-joints to wear) is what's attractive to me. We did look at a few small bowriders that were outboards from some other manufacturers, but the added $4000-6000 in cost for the boat/outboard combo is what kept us from going that route.

_________________
2009 H180 w/3.0 Merc
Homebuilt Minimax Hydro
2011 Zodiac Cadet 310
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:17 pm 
Offline
Seahorse

Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 9:18 am
Posts: 21
Location: NH
There have been a few replies that I would respond to. Somebody mentioned that the small boats are a high margin boat, which I will tell you is not the case. Four Winns and dealers run on the least margin on the H180, 183, 190 and 203. Dealer cost is much closer to MSRP on these boat and dealers get fewer discount on these boats that any of the other models. Four Winns has done this intentionally to keep the pricing low even at dealers that don't discount their product as much as others. They want to get as many people into these boats as possible with the hopes that they will trade up to another Four Winns in time. The production cut backs were simply because dealers are being more careful this year about ordering next year's boats with the inventory that they currently have. I waited to order many of my 2009 Four Winns until I felt more comfortable with what I had in stock, this is what you do when your unsure about the current state of economy. With many dealers doing the same thing and since Four Winns will not built an inventory of stock boats like some other boat builders this made it so they simply had to stop production for a while for orders to build up. I asked the factory about what I had read on the forum about them no longer producing the smaller boats and they said that had not even been a consideration. They actually had been looking into possibly building outboard smaller boats again and asked what I thought. I told them I was for it as long as the price was right, which I don't think is possible. The last year they produced outboards was in 2005 with the 180 Horizon LE. That boat with an Evinrude 150 DI was $3,600 more than the same boat with the 4.3 V6 190hp Volvo Penta. Customers did not want to pay that much more for the outboard, would you? Let me know what you think about the Four Winns outboard, how much more would you pay for it over a stern drive? Maintenance costs are less, and they have a better power to weight ratio, and they use less gas but would you pay for that upfront? Most people found that the extra $4,000 cost would pay for the extra mainteinace and gas for at least as long as they were going to own the boat which made it so we had to sell our last few outboard Four Winns for less than what they cost us. I liked the outboards very much, but I think the cost of the outboard has made it a very hard to sell for Four Winns.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:46 pm 
Offline
230 Mike
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:59 pm
Posts: 5141
Location: Kansas City, Table Rock Lake
Great information! I think there was a misunderstanding somewhere in this thread. I'm not sure anyone was under the impression that whole models were being discontinued; just that it was a pretty sure thing that some type of slowdown had been announced. Sorry if I contributed to the mayhem.

_________________
Image

Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:50 am 
Offline
life to the full

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:13 pm
Posts: 699
Location: Adelaide South Australia
It's October here in Australia that means MY NEW BOAT ARRIVES NEST MONTH!!!!
Glad to here that the smaller models haven't been discontinued
Ardy
South Australia

_________________
Ardy
Adelaide South Australia
Red H180 3.0 Merc


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:50 am 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:10 pm
Posts: 531
Location: North Bay, Ontario Canada
Great info 4Winns, your info confirmed what I thought about the outboard boats. When we were looking to buy last year, we would have been willing to pay about a $2000 premium for an outboard boat, but that was impossible with the high price of outboard motors out there.

_________________
2009 H180 w/3.0 Merc
Homebuilt Minimax Hydro
2011 Zodiac Cadet 310
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:32 am 
Offline
email admin your custom rank
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:35 am
Posts: 359
Location: Live Manchester England, Boat Aberystwyth, Wales, UK
Quote:
It's October here in Australia that means MY NEW BOAT ARRIVES NEST MONTH!!!!


Ardy! Calm down lad, your going to have a heart attack before your boat arrives. :D :D

_________________
Regards
Beyond the Blue

"If we improve with age I'm now excellent"

Image
Ex 1998 238 Vista 5.0Gi SX DP
Lexus RX300


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:54 am 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm
Posts: 5688
Location: Long Island NY
They actually had been looking into possibly building outboard smaller boats again and asked what I thought. I told them I was for it as long as the price was right, which I don't think is possible. The last year they produced outboards was in 2005 with the 180 Horizon LE. That boat with an Evinrude 150 DI was $3,600 more than the same boat with the 4.3 V6 190hp Volvo Penta. Customers did not want to pay that much more for the outboard, would you? Let me know what you think about the Four Winns outboard, how much more would you pay for it over a stern drive? Maintenance costs are less, and they have a better power to weight ratio, and they use less gas but would you pay for that upfront? Most people found that the extra $4,000 cost would pay for the extra mainteinace and gas for at least as long as they were going to own the boat which made it so we had to sell our last few outboard Four Winns for less than what they cost us. I liked the outboards very much, but I think the cost of the outboard has made it a very hard to sell for Four Winns.[/quote]

Well I'll tell you what I think, if the OB is 3600 more, yes that is a lot of money. But, here in salt water areas, in about 4 years, you will have saved close to that much in reduced maintenance costs. If you keep the boat longer, you will save money every year. When you sell the boat, it will sell a LOT faster and for MORE money. So for anyone in a coastal region, or who boats in brackish water or moors the boat in salt like I do, it's short sighted to think that an IO is going to be cheaper over time. The ONLY time it's cheaper is when you need to do an engine replacment. If I couldn't do nearly all the maintenance on my IO myself, it'd be hard to justify what it costs to keep it going vs an OB. I'd consider another IO if that was all I could get on the boat I wanted ONLY because I can do the winterizing, tune ups and drive R&R myself. Here your average cost of winterizing a single IO is at least $300, then to get it ready for the season (tune up, drive re-install, etc) can be close to $500. This doesn't even touch on other OB advantages, such as more room in the boat (important in a boat the size of a 180), at least 400 lbs lighter for the same HP, and no worry of fumes in the bilge. And for people who like to use their boat late in the seaons, you just put the engine down to drain, no running out to pull drain plugs the first cold night in October!
I have had pretty good luck with my IO and I know in freshwater areas they are very popular and last a long time, but I still think that they are losing market share in coastal regions by being I/O only. What they need to do is offer them also on the medium size boats, like the 200/210 Horizons, they used to until the late 80s. Then the increased price of the engine will be less of a percentage of the total cost of the boat, and not seen as such a liability. And I'd like to see them re-configure the rear of these boats, there is a LOT of wasted space on the current designs, do people really want and use the sunpad and seats back there? My old 88 200 just seems so much more spacious in side, with a deeper hull and seats that are mounted higher up, so you can see much better while driving
In reference to engine costs, just wait till people get the bill for the increased price of I/O engines with cat converters, I hear it's in the range of 2700-3000 more, if OBs don't need them (maybe the DI ones won't?) that levels the playing field.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:07 am 
Offline
268 Vista

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:49 am
Posts: 4989
Location: West Michigan
Good point Lou, they are losing business in coastal regions with no OB offerings. Right now, they are putting their eggs in the stern drive basket. With FW offering both the Merc Axius and the soon to be introduced Volvo joystick controlled stern drive system, FW will offer both brands in their boats sometime in 2009. It does not solve the saltwater sterndrive issues, but the potential for sales with this technology, even at a big $ cost to the consumer,is what they are concentrating on today. In the future, they may revisit the OB possibilities. But don't hold your breath.

_________________
One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista
Image
Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:52 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:33 am
Posts: 176
Location: Portland, CT
I noticed that the new for 08 V248 is not listed for 09; I assume it's a one and done. Too bad, we love the boat.

_________________
“Growing Older, But Not Up”
[

2008 Four Winns V248
2004 Stingray 220CS


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:01 pm 
Offline
Seahorse

Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 9:18 am
Posts: 21
Location: NH
LouC what about an F204 outboard. There you wouldn't have tons of the wasted interior space that you mentioned. I will tell you that idea has been brought up to compete with the offerings by Hurricane and others for the outboard and salt water guys. I will also tell you that boat is one of my favorites with tons of room and it it does very well in rough water. Put a 175-225 hp ETEC or Optimax on it and I think that would be an outstanding boat that wouldn't cost much more or the same as that boat with the 5.0GXi/SX which is what I sell it with. I would lean towards the 2-Stroke DI's just for the power and weight differences. Of course a 4-Stroke, dual overhead cam, intercooled, supercharged, electra-hydraulic assist steering Mercury Verado would be a very cool engine on that boat as long as it could handle that huge engine.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:00 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm
Posts: 5688
Location: Long Island NY
Just what I was thinking, I'd buy one of those! I like my old '88 and am partial to FWs so I would like to stay with the make. One reason I like the old one so much is that for its size it has always been a great running hull. Here in Long Island the minimum size at least as far as I am concerned, is a 20'. Anything smaller just gets bounced around too much, with the big boat wakes and if you want to venture out into LI Sound. What I would really like to see, is FW make a version of the Wellcraft 21 foot dual console, I think in recent years FW boats have gone more toward style and less functionality. If FW is now making the smaller Wellcraft boats anyway, then this would be an easy shift for them.
What I see people buy here is functional boats that can stay in the water for the 6 month season and not require tons of maintenance. They do buy the smaller cruisers, with I/Os but most people either get a smaller boat with an OB or bigger with straight inboards. I know FW is based in a fresh water area but I think they should consider the sales they are losing all up and down the Eastern Seaboard, Fla and the Gulf Coast, California and the PNW. All salt/brackish areas, and people around here do spend serious money on boats. BUT, many believe, in the words of a boat yard owner "the only thing worse than a boat with an outdrive, is a boat with 2 outdrives!"

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group