www.iFourWinns.com

Cougar - thanks. It is something was suggested by a friend as a possible fix. I'll be interested to hear what FW proposes. Clearly something about the hull design and transducer placement don't get along. As I mentioned, it only happens at cruising speed and I found it drops out less frequently in completely smooth conditions, so something in turbulent conditions is likely sending air bubbles under that part of the hull.

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

I guess this is why this thread is so quiet! Any end of season thoughts, particularly if the boat was new to you this season?
(the shot below makes me smile a whole lot more than the one above)

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

My 08 358 Ray depth finder works very well all the way up to max speed 36Kts in very rough seas it gets confused, i do not have a bow thruster though, also i have the I/O maybe the Inboard pick up some turbalance from the shafts?

Sean

I might agree with the previous poster since we have i/os as well and very rarely would the depth guage drop out and I can't recall it ever doing so under way.

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2008 Four Winns V358 (T 6.2L Merc Bravo III's with DTS and SeaCore)
2006 Sea Ray 340DA
2006 Sea Ray 320DA
2005 Maxum 3100 SE

Is this why no one on this thread talks anymore? Where are you all? How was your boating season? All new owners of 358's now that it is over and done, how was your first season with the boat? Would you buy it again? What do you like/don't like about the boat? What would you add if you could repurchase? What would you remove and save your money on if you could do it over again? Let's hear from some of you guys.

Happy Holidays!

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2008 Four Winns V358 (T 6.2L Merc Bravo III's with DTS and SeaCore)
2006 Sea Ray 340DA
2006 Sea Ray 320DA
2005 Maxum 3100 SE

Is there an echo echo echo in here???


Well, I've got lots to say but no time to get into it right now, so Steve, I nominate you to go first. Did you guys have "Better Luck" than you did with your Sea Ray? Since you're probably the only ones on the planet who owned both a late-model 340DA and a V358, separate from the 'issues' you had with the Sea Ray, your assignment is a detailed comparison and don't hold back!

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

Well the short answer is yes, very happy with the boat overall. Aside from our trials and tribulations with our selling dealer going out of business shortly after we took delivery and then trying to get new people to work with FW to service the boat, we are overall pleased.

Once that was resolved and we found terrific mechanics, we are thrilled and glad our dealer folded. Their service was not that great from the start.

I have described in detail our punchlist woes on this thread before, so no need to rehash. I can say all issues were resolved to our satisfaction. The only new issue that cropped up over our boating season was operator induced, and that was I hit a huge wake and the trim on the cabin ceiling was knocked loose right near the cabin entry door.

Oh, yeah question for you all. The shower sump switch in the electriacl panel. Is that switch meant to be in the off position all the time? If I flick mine to the on position my pump starts running regardless of the water level. We also may have burned up the pump. I tried to change it and the float switch but still no power. I think it is an issue that will need addressing in the spring. Any clues?

Would we buy this boat again? YES. We love how she handles, how she saves gas vs V-drives, how she handles in snotty seas, the ease of living aboard for several days, using the galley to cook. The bed is super comfortable (with our old Sea Ray custom sheets which are all cotton and very high thread count) Like the electricity options near the bead. ac/dc outlets are handy since I use a CPAP machine for my sleep apnea. Love the amount of plugs and outlets that are throughout the boat also.

We acutally like the placement of the TV in the galley, one can watch while cooking or cleaning up. If it were on the bulkhead it would not be used as much. We can come down, fill our drinks, check the weather via local doppler radar and continue partying.

I like the dual stereo setup. Often times we are in two different places and listening to two different stations. Kinda like that. Love the helm station. Seating is comfortable with good viewing even while getting on plane which does not really take that long with our power configuration. Engines were flawless. Love the turn the key and release feature to start her up. We like the option to walk thru the windshield or go around. And when you are astern and you need to walk around, the built in step to the gunwhale on the stern is a great design. Love the accent lighting all over the boat. The cockpit stereo system beat everything out there this summer. I had a $$ MoMo system in our SR 340 and this "Standard system" beat it by far.

If we ordered this boat here are the things I would change: I would not get the cockpit TV, if you want to watch a video on it, you can't control the DVD player from the cockpit. Either fix that situation or don't bother with the option.

I would not order the teak and holly floors in the cabin either, too slippery for humans and pets. We kept the carpet we were given, laid out all season.

We had ice makers in all previous boats in the cockpit and I am still undecided as to whether I like the extra fridge space or the convenience of having ice at my disposal. There were several occaisions where we found ourselves without ice b/c either we wound up stopping at the boat and hanging out with out a prior plan, or we simply ran out of the ice we brought along. Still undecided on that!

The a/c unit is perfectly powered, we were cool all summer long and it runs very quietly. Sometimes you could hang meat down there it was so cold!

Loved the amount of cabin storage. We actually had more room than needed, with the exception of finding decent place to store our eisenglass panels, cockpit cover, sun pads, etc. No boat is great at that though.

Things FW should alter: The storage box on the transom is a joke. The door is flimsy and does not seat well. We can't fit fenders in it, it gets wet and yucky down there, shore power cords dont work in that spot either, we used to unplug from the dock and take the cords with us, now we have to unplug from the boat and leave the cords on shore.

We wish there were directional lighting on the radar arch to illuminate the seating area astern. When we are playing Farkle or cards or other games at night, it is tough to see what you are doing.

More dry storage up on deck. Face it, there is none. Better drainage of some of the storage areas would be helpful as well. We found absolutely no use for the swim platform molded in coolers. Too shallow to really do anything with, just remove them and have a smooth, flat surface and save money.

Re-route the galley sink to direct discharge overboard. The way it is set up is a recipe for continual clogs and dealing with rank, gunky stuff. I might do this myself if I knew how.

I would like to see more non-skid on the cabin entry steps. We had to keep shower mats on them b/c JJ would not go down the steps b/c they were too slippery for him. And as previously stated, you find your way down the steps only to fall flat on your keester on the teak and holly ice rink.

The cockpit carpet runner just up the step to the helm station should be snapped or velcroed in. We found under way during certain wind conditions that it would start to float like a magic carpet. It also tends to slide away from the cabin entry door leaving a gap and a subsequent over-hang at the other end as you step down to the main cockpit area.

If you order Mercruiser engines, I would like to have been able to have more engine info available, such as: fuel burn, especially in these economic times. The smartcraft panel should come standard on this price of a boat, or atleast be pre-wired for it. I missed my Smartcraft from our SR.

I know it sounds like a lot of stuff but overall, dollar for dollar, this boat beats the competition in quality, fit and finish, standard features and owner satisfaction hands down.

I may have missed a thing or two but someone else will likely cover it in their review.

Happy Holidays!

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2008 Four Winns V358 (T 6.2L Merc Bravo III's with DTS and SeaCore)
2006 Sea Ray 340DA
2006 Sea Ray 320DA
2005 Maxum 3100 SE

I agree with all the points made.

You can hang a camping "UFO" LED light from the bimini to give better light over the cockpit table. A sailboat friend turned me on to the idea. Ebay has 'em cheap so I won't worry about the salt air rotting them out.

My list for spring includes re-routing the galley sink overboard. I too am tired of the 'mold farm' growing in the sump. Realizing, of course, this would mean any jewelry that goes down the drain would be GONE for good. But in 3 seasons that's yet to ever be an issue, the mold however continues to be an annoyance.

The rubber backing on my cockpit carpets is starting to fail. When I replace it (which is fodder for a whole other discussion) I plan on altering the sizes somewhat. The helm and companionway runners would be slightly smaller and use snaps. The main cockpit are might be slightly different to avoid the flap that always get stuck under the transom door.

OH, and here's a tip, CHECK the screws for your cockpit table mount sockets. The aft one on mine has worked all of the screws loose and one of the is stripped. Hopefully a bit of epoxy in the holes will solve it. If not then I'll through-bolt them. Make sure yours are properly tightened.

The new swim platform locker on the 408 is something that would be nice to see on the 358. But I would insist on the doors being hinged to be able to fold flat, not stuck up at that angle. Leaving them up like that just invites them being snapped off when something accidentally presses on them.

I agree that the current transom locker design is inferior. I really, really like the ability to get into the locker from the top. It's much safer than having to step back and allow the door to swing upwards. But something MUST be done to improve the dryness problem in there. Same thing with the moisture in the other lockers. There's just too many ways for water to get into them, and not enough ways for them to drain.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

The shower sump pump is a problem. I had 3 replaced last summer. Including 1 directly shipped from the Rule factory. The circuit breaker should in the panel should be in the off position and the rising water level should cause the switch to turn the pump on. In theory it is a nice system. It does not work. The pump is suppose to be a single speed pump, but mine seems to run at 2 different speeds and the Rule-o-matic switch works sometimes. This past week I took a voltmeter to the system and determined that it is wired wrong somewhere between the panel and the pump. There appears to be a stray low current that causes the pump to run constantly at a low speed and burn out. I did an easy fix by cutting the wire (and sealing it) at the switch and I now use the switch on the panel to turn the pump on before I shower. My sink directly goes overboard so my fix is easy on the pump. It is very annoying to hear the humm of the shower pump when you are trying to sleep.

Any problems with the CO detectors ? Mine go off in the middle of the night without a running engine for miles and with the port holes open. They go off when underway with the cabin door closed. Both have been replaced.

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07 Tiara Sovran 4300
07 338 Vista - SOLD

That switch in the V358 panel is a manual override for the shower sump, not a breaker. The pump will operate as long as it is switched on. During my orientation it was suggested that I flip it on manually whenever I am showering or running the galley sink at length so the pump would do a better job of keeping up with the constant flow of water. Logically, the float switch should keep the pump activated continously during constant draining, but I heeded the mechanic's advice and never had any issues. Flipping on the switch also helps to evacuate any residual water below the float switch's threshold. I did have the issue which I raised several pages ago of the pump switching on momentarily a few times an hour (annoying in the middle of the night). I chalked it up to condensation but after the cooling season ended I noticed it was still doing it for apparently no reason. I'm thinking that with water right at the float switch's threshold, any slight movement would activate it. Maybe it will magically correct itself over the winter.

I do need to seal up the shower sump box better so it does not overflow into the bilge (as previously discussed here). It's a really pain sucking water out of that tight space. I also plan to plumb the galley sink drain directly overboard in the spring. I recall that one of our members has done it and I was hoping he might provide a more detailed overview of the process, including how many inches below the rub rail the thru-hull is located.

And thanks for the thorough review Steve. Mine is on the way. We just have to stretch out the entries so at least there's something new to read everyday over the long winter. Now if we could only get that V408 to the NY Boat show... Oh, wait. Different thread.

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

I put in an added pump and sump pickup to deal with water in the mid-cabin bilge. I wouldn't recommend this to others as it was (and continues to be) a pain in the ass. I've been plagued by water showing up there mysteriously. I may have finally found the source; I think the sink in the head is leaking somehow.

For occasional overflows I had been using a DeWalt cordless wet/dry vac. It's good for about a half-gallon and usually took two times to clean up the overflow. It's also handy for other cleanup tasks. It is LOUD, but it works great.

The trouble with the shower sump design is they cut a hole into the top edge in order to get the wiring in there. But they didn't really seal it up properly. When you run the shower and the galley sink together (or either with some suds in the water) it can get ahead of the pump flow rate. Long enough to let it spurt a but of a leak out the wiring access hole. To make matters worse the sump tends to collect gunk and get moldy if you don't clean it out regularly. Which means you can put a caulk seal on it. That and the screws going into the plastic of the sump housing won't hold up after too many opening/closings.

Not sure there's a good solution. But it would certainly help if they did a better job at the factory in putting the wiring into the sump.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

The CO detectors are on the Ships System battery. The ONE battery. The use of only one battery is what I consider a bad design; one I've posted about here before. If the system battery goes too low it'll trip the low voltage alarm on the CO detectors. This is a worthwhile safety feature. But when it trips in the middle of the night and you don't know why it's an unwelcome surprise. Especially if you're half in the bag and trying to find the eff'ing users manual for them....

I added two 6v batteries in series to augment the single system battery. This has totally eliminated all my previous 12v consumption concerns.

The sump wiring does seem strange. I've never bothered to fully trace it out. I "repurposed" my breaker switch to run a second pump I added. My regular float switch has worked fine. But I do get the occasional intermittent operation of it. Sometimes it seems to get stuck, so I just open the hatch and smack the sump with my hand and it shuts off (percussive therapy). If/when the sump dies I intend to research different suppliers. The Rule unit is "ok" but I'd prefer something better designed.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Looks like I will be calling FW and discussing the shower sump situation with them. Seems to be a common concern amongst us. The reason for the intermittent on and off is that there is a flimsy rubber back flow device inside the hose. It can get clogged with debris from the galley sink and not fully close. Water then leaks back into the sump causing the pump to come on to push that water out. A vicious cycle since the pump does not stay on long enough to actually push the water all the way overboard. Like we all have said, a terrible set up.

The reason for me wanting to call FW about this is two-fold. One, the pump is not working as of now, manually putting the pump on is not a viable solution. Two, I think this is a design flaw.

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2008 Four Winns V358 (T 6.2L Merc Bravo III's with DTS and SeaCore)
2006 Sea Ray 340DA
2006 Sea Ray 320DA
2005 Maxum 3100 SE

Now there's an explanation I can use. I added another pump in bilge area to allow me to get the water out. I didn't want to add another through-hull line overboard so I just tee'd into the existing line. I did install a second backflow valve between the new pump and the tee. But I still kept getting some water down in the bilge, more than I expected and I could not track it down. On a whim I put a shut-off valve between the new pump and the tee. Lo and behold the unexplained water ceased. It would appear my new backflow valve didn't actually prevent all backflow. It would block most of it but when the shower sump kicked in and started pumping there was just enough pressure for it to slip back past the added backflow. I could picture the same thing happening with the one inside the shower sump. Now that I've narrowed down the likely source of the water (head sink lines) I'll have less use for my added pump. So I'll probably not 'fix' the problem.

I don't know if there IS a better way to get around this problem. The shower drain is always going to be lower than the waterline (along with the AC condensate tray). You can't defeat gravity so some sort of backflow valve is pretty much always going to be necessary. I guess the question is what brand valve does the best job?

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Installing an over board drain for the sink was one of the first things i did, quite easy remove the fridge only 4 screws discount the two power cords and remove the fridge, not too heavy but be sure to lift all the way out (if you pull it will drop down and land right on your toes!! i l learnt that the hard way)
I drilled the through hull from the inside out about 4 inches up from the water line, i got a all stainless fitting and used 3M adhesive/sealant (westmarine) all works very well and looks good from the outside. i would not be too worried about the dropping of jewery as the actual sink hole traps drain from the horizontal not from the bottom so if it falls in it has to raise up and then go through a hole.

Sean