www.iFourWinns.com

I own a 1998 horizon 190 4.3.I was out on the lake this weekend and ran my boat all day and ran fine no problems.I let it set for an hour went to start it and it sounded like a low battery with the usual clicking you would get.I checked the battery with a volt meter and they both read 12.34 so I ruled out the dead battery thing pretty quicky.Later I tried again and then nothing no clicking just dead in the water.Ichecked all grounds all was good,switched batteries same.So this leads me bo believe it is a starter problem?Wondering what you guys thoght.If it is is possible to remove the starter while the motor is still in the boat as it is pretty far back down in there?The mechanic on the lake said engine removal was the only way to remove the starter.

It could be. Got a skinny kid? My flexible skinny 10 yr old makes extra cash helping out us inflexible fat old farts get into places we could only dream about.

I would clean the ends of the battery cable at both ends of the starter. You might also want to check it using a jumper cable to eliminate the battery cable all together.

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Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

I just had my starter replaced a couple of weeks ago. I have a 17' Horizon 4.3L. I had similar problems as you did. Couple of starts sounded like a dead or dying battery and then one time it just wouldn't start anymore. Just bought the battery last year. Not even a click. I could hear the fuel pump go on but that's it. Did all of the basic checks and figured it was the solenoid. However, you can't just replace the solenoid. Have to do the whole assembly. First thing to know is you DO NOT have to pull the motor to replace the starter. However, it is still a pain in the A#$! The starter is held on with 2 bolts going from the bottom of the starter up into the bell housing. I got the first one off with a socket no problem. The second one however I never got off. You can not get a socket on it nor a closed end wrench. The bolt head sits to close to the bell housing. (or whatever that housing is called) Opened end wrench only and then good luck getting enough leverage! After 2 attempts, about 4 hours each attempt, I finally gave up and sent it to the shop. My shoulder is still sore! I felt better after the mechanic told me it still took him 2 hours to get the bolt out himself! He ended up shaving down a socket to fit and finally broke it loose. Again, he did not take the motor out. Plus he only charged me an hour labor and I had already purchased the starter motor somewhere else($170.00 + core). Hope this helps and good luck!

Good info, thanks. Roughly how many hours did your motor have when the starter solenoid failed?

The post you gave me was awesome I got that suker of in about 2 hours.After it was unbolted I manuvered it upwards so that I could take a digital picture of the wiring and then removed the wiring as well as marking them with a sharpie on the starter.Im going to take the starter in and have it tested tomorrow.I have 200 hours on the motor.

Glad you had better success than I did!!! I may have had more luck if the boat had been at home and I could use my garage tools, but the boat was up at the campground for the summer.

For the record the boat is a 1995 and I have no idea how many hours are on it. Is there an hour meter on the engine somewhere? None on the dash. Actually it's not even my boat! It's my buddies who has been out of the country for the past 3 years. I keep it in top running order and exercised for him while he's gone. Plus he get's the pictures of my kids tubing behind his boat which gives him a taste of home.

Let us know what you find out at the shop on your motor.

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1995 Freedom 170
4.3L

Well I took I tested the starter and it turned out to be fine after all so I guess Im going to throw it back in tomorrow.My mechanic thinks that the remote that he put in earlier this year is to blame,not in the right spot of nuetral for the boat to start.Does anybody know of a safety reset button on this make of boat?

Well advise to all who think the starter is failing,check the starter relay switch first.It is located behind the black cover that the trim reset buttons are located.Peace out

So I put in a new relay that I bought from napa and it sounds like the engine is siezed up the motor lopes really hard and will not start batts are good even with a jump off my truck.Is this and indication of a fried motor?

ASAP, remove the spark plugs and crank the motor. If any water comes out squirt some Marvel Mystery oit in to each cylinder and crank the motor some more. Please remember to remove the ignition coil wire so you don't shock the piss out of yourself.

Once you've done that, check the oil and make sure it's clean and is not milky indicating water. If it is, get it out, replace the oil and filter. Put the plugs back in and get it started. If water was in the oil, change it again along with the filter. Run the motor a bit again and change the oil and filter a third time. Use cheak oil and filters for these changes with the last change being a change with your normal good oil and filter.

You should be in good shape now but you need to determine how the water got into the engine. It could have ingested some from dieseling. On some of the Vlvo motors there are check valves located on the inside sides of the exhaust elbows with a tube running up to the flame arrestor. They are designed to break a vacumn that can occur the exhaust system and cause water ingestion. Volvo added them after they had some issues with this on thier v-6 if memory serves. They can get corroded and stop working. I had that problem on my 5.7 VP engien wich was a '99 motor.

Also, if your exhaust elbows are original or haven't been inspected in a while, remove them and inspect. You can also have them pressure tested to assure they are mot compromised. On a 1998, I've poney up the $300 and just replace them. They are considered a maintenance item and have a define life. A small leak in mine on the for mentioned boat/engine caused me to have to replace the motor. There was a very small compromise that allowed just a touch of water to get into the engine. It started a but hard but then ran well once warm and the moisture disappeared. I finally figured it out when the compromise got big enough that after two weeks of sitting there was enough water in a cylinder to keep the engine from cranking. Removing the water and replacing/cleaning the plugs got her fired up and running. By then the damage was done and the cost of rebuilding the engine and labor was within $500 of just dropping in a new long block that gave me a 1 yr warranty.

Once you get the motor "fixed" and know that your water and exhuast system aren't compromised I'd add some Marvel Mystery oil to the next tank of gas to help clean out the motor and protect against any moisture left in the engine.

_________________
Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

Thank you so much for youre info,I ran out as soon as I read your reply and did exactly what you said and it worked cranked out the water and poured a few squirts of marvel oil in each plug hole and it finally started up.I checked the oil and it was a little low but no sign out milky water.I had to be towed 20 miles back to marina could this have filled the cylanders with water?Im sure it is the exaust bellows that are leaking as I just had the transome replaced because it had filled with water.Any more suggetion would be appreciated.Thanks again.

I don't think towing would put water in the engine like you had. The impeller would prevent any water from getting past it without it turning. Just not possible by design.

There had to be a way the water got there and the exhaust/cooling interface is the culprit 95% of the time. If you don't verify the exhaust sysem in not compromised. A bellows will not do it. A drive bellows will ruin your gimbal bearing and universals. An exhaust bellows is optional. My friend has a Regal 19 " bowrider that doesn't use a exhuast bellows.

It almost has to be:
1. Dieseling on the engine (AKA running backwards for a second or two)
2. A leaking exhaust elbow
3. A leaking exhaust manifold
4. A leaking/compromised gasket on the exhaust manifold, exhaust elbow or head.
5. A non-working vacumn break. See part 27 below.
6. Coming off plane real fast or going in reverse at a quick forward speed.



If you boat in fresh water only chances are your exhaust manifolds are fine. If you boat in saltwater even part of the time, the parts need to be checked or replaced.

Look at the point where your exhaust elbow and exhaust manifold mate, Part# 19. If you see any stains trailing from the joint you have a gasket issue for sure.

I'm guessing that you have a compromise. While the engine was running, exhaust pressure and heat kept the water out (small leak). You stopped, no more exhaust pressure and while it was sitting the water entered the exhaust gas passages and found it's way into the cylinder/cylinders where the valves were in the open position. So, you go to start it and it seems like a low battery because the water in the cylinders can't be compressed and has now fouled the plugs preventing any spark.

It may have been a one time incident but if it were me, I would definitely want to check everything out as the next time you may end up needing a new engine! Hydrolocks are UGLY and most of the time a knife in the heart of any motor. Some of your time and a couple hundred buck in parts vs. $4000 for a new long block and the labor to replace. Most of this is stuff that is relatively easy to do. Exhaust elbows are a piece of cake. The hardest part of the job can be getting the old many times corroded bolts off. If you want to try it, PM me and I'll list the steps I followed.

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Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

Hope that this does not sidetrack the thread...
1) should a gasket sealing compond be used, my trusted mechanic and my not trused manual said yes but the very detailed Volvo instructions said no.
2) I seem to remmeber that Volvo recommends that the exhoust flappers be removed. How should the flapper shaft holes be covered?
3) any way to monitor that there is a leak in the manifolds before damage?
Thanks

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'96 Horizon 200
"Have fenders...will raft"

I'll assume you are going to use a Volvo gasket. NO do not use any sealant! I had a mechanic use sealent on a head repair (under VP warranty). Failure happened again and VP refused the warranty becuase the idiot used sealant. The dealer went out of business shortly after my issue.

_________________
Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

New to this forum and looking for help.

2004 Horizon....worked great all weekend until the last time I stopped the boat it wouldn't start....a loud grinding noise was coming from the starter and then it sounds like it just whines now without starting. Two years ago I had the starter go out on this boat.

What might I be looking at as the cause for this?
Thanks,

Marty