www.iFourWinns.com

I am familiar with that plan. They take your flywheel and drill it for the Bravo coupler I think. (the Bravo coupler bolts on like a clutch pressure plate.....a FAR better way to do it.)


It's a band aid fix for someone needing a quadruple bypass....

I'm with the Cougercruiser though..........(CC You're not too close to Husky Stadium are you?)


Start looking for a replacement engine drive.......

_________________
1987 Four Winns Liberator 211, formerly OMC 460 King Kobra powered, replaced in 2006 by a 1997 Mercruiser 454/Bravo III

Wow Rick you really got bit by one of these didn't you.

Actually I did some Liberator searching on speedwake.com and read a thread with guys either running or used to run Liberators with the king cobra and most said they had really good luck with them. I mean some here and there said they had something break at one time or another, but all said it was avoidable as long as you stayed on top of things. Many said they had years and years of trouble free operation with that setup. I am by no means disagreeing with you here on the KC setup, they obviously had some issues and certain parts can be very hard to find, but I think it can be run as long as you are on top of it, and from what i am reading specifically the shift cable.

I do know that the mechanic working on it has 30 years of experience and said he knows the king cobra drive well. He said the same thing, that they are really good drives as long as you have someone working on them that knows what they are doing and knows all the tricks outside of the manuals. He said the original manuals do give some bad procedures and the subsequent bulletin releases while OMC was still in business did correct a lot of those procedures which help prevent a lot of problems that surfaced from these setups.

I am just going to get it out of the way that I have heard what you have said and I am going to take the chance and not listen. I will probably regret it, but I am just having such a hard time saying no to this boat. I just going to apologize up front and get it out of the way. Thanks you for the information, please don't take it like I don't hear and value your expertise in this matter.

I went to school at Northern, I watched Wolf break some serious records there. He is a backup RB for the Bears, but is quicker than all get out.

I have the plain regular Cobra in my 88 Horizon and it's been pretty good overall, but I am lucky to have a very good OMC mechanic. It needed basic stuff any boat of its age would need, bellows, gimble bearing, various seals in the drive and a set of manifolds. Plus some trim lines needed to be changed too. But it's 21 years old, and used in salt water (sits on a mooring in salt water 5-6 months of the year). So that's much harder use than most freshwater boats.
If you feel you must have this boat, try to buy it as cheaply as possible, and start saving for the eventual drive conversion you might need. Come to think of it, once I read about the fact that there is a conversion kit to put a Volvo SX on a Cobra transom mount, I really considered it, but my mechanic talked me out of it, because he said, right now there is no issue with the parts for this drive and if need be it could be rebuilt for 1/3 to 1/2 the price of a Volvo....and she just keeps on going....

Good luck and enjoy!

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Well,

Not really, I wouldn't call it "Bit" as in "teeth marks" etc...

I just wouldn't buy one now unless I could get it it VERY cheaply.

OMC is gone..... out of business...more than 10 years now.... there's a lot of after market companies out there supporting a lot of parts for the Cobras. there's far less parts for a 460 King Cobra.

Up until recently there was no 460 manifolds or couplers at all. Last year Doug Russell had manifolds for $1400 EACH! and for the last 3 years or so there was NO couplers or alternatives.

AND right now if you "blow" a coupler explosively (I had no idea that could happen), you will not be able to find a replacement flywheel housing easily, if at all......

You probably have thru hull exhaust (most Libs did)......but if you had thru prop exhaust and the Y-pipe corroded enough to leak, and your boat was stored in the water, it would sink..... once you raised your boat from sinking, you'd have to block off the thru prop exhaust on the gimbal and put thru Hull exhaust in it because the Y-pipes are not available except from another boat...


I hate to re-iterate this stuff again (maybe I'm sounding like a broken record.....sorry )

I don't think I said the King or any Cobra was a "bad" drive, I'm just pointing out what is wrong with them today (especially the 460 King which is not the "same" as the other ones...... ( and, which is why I did what did to my Liberator)


If you have to have that 241, get it as cheap as you can. but once you have it (keep a eng/drive swap in the back pocket for the future)

Also make every effort to ensure that theres no rot in the floor, stringers, or transom....


Aside from all this stuff.........if it runs fine, you will absolutely have a blast with that thing this summer!!!


Regards,



Rick

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1987 Four Winns Liberator 211, formerly OMC 460 King Kobra powered, replaced in 2006 by a 1997 Mercruiser 454/Bravo III

Hi Gregg here my thoughts are education on the OMC KC is the secret ,I have my first its a 261 w twin 460s and am learning with the great help of the fine people on this forum what to expect and the warning signs and proper maintainence on theese drives. To me the important thing is the boat was in great shape the rest well I can handle what ever mechanical problems that pop up. Libs are heavy and handle rough water pretty well not the fastes out there but who runs full out all the time 55 is the limit unless your a mile off shore.
To me just idling around and watching the peoples faces and the comments I get because the boat just sounds right.
Not to make the chevy guys mad I like them all, the 460 has a very strong buttom end and the 460 makes more hp and tq at lower rpm than the chevy does so ya dont have to spin them that hard. Offer the marina $5800.00 Good luck Gregg

I'd offer even less, you can hardly sell OMC boats here AT ALL!

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Well, I'm guessing the people that buy them at the inflated prices are the people that don't do there homework on them. So I think there are sellers still getting OK prices for them to the people who like them, but don't know about the KC issues and aren't familiar with the problems associated with them. Especially when they are in this good of condition. I still haven't seen it in person but based on the pictures and the second hand opinion of the person that borrowed the boat when the outdrive issue happened. I am definitely thinking about at least making the drive this Sunday to check it out. If I approve then I will determine the price then and speak with the mechanic regarding the repairs on the outdrive and the sale will be finalized upon completion of the repairs. The seller is not the one paying for the repairs, the friend who borrowed it is. It's his job to get the boat back to the mechanical condition of before he borrowed it and he assured me that it would be and that he had no problem with me talking to the mechanic regarding the repairs. He also said I would get the work order receipt upon completion.

Howdy to Gregg! We're still waiting for those videos!!


I RESEMBLE THAT!!

Adam, I gave $5K for mine in 2005. My brother had a buyer for it at about $6k. It had about 250 hrs since he bought it new (and because he allowed it to freeze it had a rebuilt engine in it with about 100hrs on it)

I didn't do my homework at all! I knew nothing about OMC.....Didn't even know they were out of business!

Knowing what I know now, If I was offered my 211 Lib in it's previous condition, I think I would have offered my brother maybe $4000 or less or maybe just tell him to sell it to his buddy for $6000!

By the way, there's a 261 with 350 MAG Mercs for sale on Ebay right now with no reserve and the bidding is up to about $2700! That's going to be fun to watch....I'll bet it goes fairly cheap..... $5-6k maybe

You know, this used to be a Liberator forum but the moderator changed it to previous models because there wasn't much Lib Talk......maybe now we can get another Lib forum going?

I'm with Lou btw, I think you might be surprised if you "low ball" them...

_________________
1987 Four Winns Liberator 211, formerly OMC 460 King Kobra powered, replaced in 2006 by a 1997 Mercruiser 454/Bravo III

Aside from the engine/drive issues - What kind of shape is the rest of the boat in?

Is the hull perfect and the interior perfect? rips/tears/oxidation?

That could definitely affect value.

We need pictures!!!!!

_________________

2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Do a little searching on Offshoreonly.com.....

A few years ago (right after I got mine and I was running the 460), There was a guy on there that put a 540 stroker (BBF) in a 211 Lib with a King Cobra,

He said he could "Bury the speedometer at 80 mph" and he didn't break the drive! No one argued with him..... No one ever said the King Cobras were weak!!!

_________________
1987 Four Winns Liberator 211, formerly OMC 460 King Kobra powered, replaced in 2006 by a 1997 Mercruiser 454/Bravo III

Whats involved with keeping the KC drive and bolting up other motors to them? I think if I chose a motor it would probably be a 502 or Ford's equivalent, not sure what that is. Also, can you just run a 502 or else block for a car or does it have to be a marine block? I know marine blocks were built tougher and with tighter tolerances to deal with the more consistent running in the higher RPM ranges and most were standard 4 bolt mains. My only experience with boats is my brothers Mastercraft which is running the 351 Ford Winsor motor. Had to drop and pull that motor out of the boat like 5 times before we figured out an oil leak problem out the rear main seal which in the end turned out to be a crank problem and was the crate engine builders fault. Would have just rebuilt the old one, but the block was cracked and for $900 for a short block and a 6 month warranty we couldn't go wrong. The thing runs like a bat out of hell now. The nice thing about boats is they usually have a lot of room to work with, maybe not the smaller boats but I would think this 241 has got some room. Also, do you have to pull the drive to pull the motor?

Well,

Another NO. You cannot put a bigblock Chev in any 87-89 King Cobra. There was no flywheel housing ever made for that.....If you had a 90 460 King Cobra, first year for the Cone Clutch (King) Cobra, you could scrounge a 454/502 Flywheel housing and maybe even a complete engine and put it in your boat. (there's even a Volvo Kit that allows a much newer Volvo Penta drive to be adapted to the 90 and newer Cobras)

(again you could probably go to a machine shop and have them custom make anything .....ADD several thousand dollars...anything can happen with money.....) but it'll be more than replacing everything with Volvo/Merc.

You're ok to run the 460 if you can replace the manifolds and coupler (for now) assuming everything else is in good condx.

It is not worth pulling the engine and rebuilding it though....

This is where I was.

It was going to cost me (round numbers) about $3500 to rebuild/replace my 460 (assuming about $1000 for manifolds/risers....which is more now.......NEVER replace an engine with old riser/manifolds on it .....you're just asking for it then.....)

By the way.......after receiving $1500 so far for the OMC parts I have sold, I'm at $3500 for my 97 454/Bravo III (I'm not counting hobby/labor....you never do!!!) And I still have a good condition low time outdrive to sell. I think it's worth at least $1000.....and maybe more.


There's not a lot of difference between the truck 460 and the stock "marine" 460. Marine cam (prevents reversion), brass soft (NOT freeze) plugs, J1171 Marine-- starter/alt/dist.


One thing you might do.....If you don't really "low ball" them. tell them you want new set of manifolds and risers thrown in on the deal (uninstalled).... You can ask for a spare coupler but I don't those are available yet....

Make absolutely sure they checked/set the engine/drive alignment....


Yes the drive must be removed to pull the engine (and replace the coupler).

_________________
1987 Four Winns Liberator 211, formerly OMC 460 King Kobra powered, replaced in 2006 by a 1997 Mercruiser 454/Bravo III

ht32bsx115

I shot you a pm.

Hi Rick just to let you know pictures are comming , have to wait for 3 ft of ice to melt
Take Care Gregg

Wow! Makes me cold just thinking about it!!

Hey have you seen the 261 for sale on ebay? A little over 2 days left and up to about $3100

MAN If it was closer to me.........I donno what I'd do!!!!

_________________
1987 Four Winns Liberator 211, formerly OMC 460 King Kobra powered, replaced in 2006 by a 1997 Mercruiser 454/Bravo III