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 Post subject: 2007 348 changes?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:17 am 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
Posts: 2444
Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
In looking at the website I can see a few changes.

There's now an option of a door for the mid-cabin. I cant picture that being very pleasant to use. There's just not enough room to stand between the bulkhead for the helm and where they'd put that door.

Interesting to see they've replaced the staggered steps. Not sure I'd like the added intrusion into the cabin space. But I'm sure it'd help silence the worries of people afraid of the staggered kind. Personally I think they're no trouble at all.

Flexi-teek now available in the cockpit. Great, so now you can burn your feet in the cockpit too, instead of just on the swim platform! That and deal with impossible to remove stains/scuffs. No thanks and certainly not at the $5569 price listed!

Ooooh, but that teak/holly flooring in front of the galley is nice. Is the carpet cut to go around this? There's an annoying tendency of the fridge freezer to defrost itself and leak a small bit of water onto the carpet below, so this might help.

The galley TV is still mounted too high to watch comfortably. Honestly, mounting it above the microwave just makes it way too uncomfortable a viewing angle. Your neck hurts watching from anything longer than a half-hour. Unfortunately there's no good other place to mount it.

Nice to see an E-80 option for the chartplotter. Not sure it's worth the three thousand they're charging extra for it. Ouch.

Also nice to see the diesel option. I wonder how they'd compare, performance-wise, to the 6.0 Crusaders? But at a $39k price premium? Somehow I'm skeptical this sort of pricing is justified. If Four Winns really wanted to grab some sales they'd sell diesels at or near the same as gas. That'd REALLY get them some attention. Even with today's prices it's still going to take longer than the average ownership period to see any sort of savings that justifies such a high price.

$1600 dollars for the mid-cabin TV option? Are they smoking crack up there in Cadillac? That's just outrageous.

Still, even with all that when I priced out one with the same options as our 348 it doesn't look like they've jacked the prices up by any appreciable amount.

Finally, gee thanks for screwing the 348 owners. Take the same boat, give it a "bigger number" and make us take the hit when it comes to resale. Crap like this doesn't encourage brand loyalties. Someone should pimp slap the marketing droid that came up with this stupid idea.


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 Post subject: Re: 2007 348 changes?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:22 pm 
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wkearney99 wrote:
Someone should pimp slap the marketing droid that came up with this stupid idea.


LMAO :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:19 pm 
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268 Vista

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:49 am
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Quote:
and make us take the hit when it comes to resale. Crap like this doesn't encourage brand loyalties. Someone should pimp slap the marketing droid that came up with this stupid idea.


They did the same thing with the 268 / 278. I wasn't thrilled.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:18 pm 
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Dolphin

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:37 pm
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Location: USA
I hear that the rear cabin and the diesels are for the european market. Story was that typical boaters over there want two separate cabins since they tend to boat for a month at a time. Two couples can share the boat with at least a little privacy.

Diesel is also much cheaper than gas there (yet both are MUCH more expensive than the US). Speed is supposedly not as important there either.

I personally like the open cabin in mine. The bulkheads and doors would probably make it feel cramped.

I do like the new wood floor in the cabin. The picture I saw in the '07 Vista brochure does have the carpet cut around it. Wonder what a retrofit would involve?

My carpet is stained under the fridge too. It's from the door being slightly propped open at the bottom from a thick bottle or some such being on the bottom shelf of the door. Keeps the gasket from sealing completely. Voila - wet carpet.

As for the TV, we don't mind its placement at all. If it was lower, you couldn't see it when you're laying in the v-berth. Kids watch it from the dinette and have never uttered a complaint (shocking since they tend to complain about everything else....)

Agree that the flexiteak cockpit is a bad idea due to heat. I do like the flexiteak swim platform though. I don't have any problems with staining though.

As for the 348/358 I really don't think it will make much difference in the resale value. Anyone serious about this kind of boat should know the real story. Plus harbormasters will probably want more for overnight slips... "That one's 35 feet, the other is only 34 feet."

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:43 am 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
Posts: 2444
Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
I also want to consider retrofitting the floor at the galley. I'd even go so far as to consider extending it in front of the door to the head. Well, maybe. Hopefully there will be one at the Annapolis show coming up.

I have the forward stateroom wall, so watching TV from the berth isn't possible. The forward wall doesn't cramp the cabin, but two of them seems like it'd be a problem. Good point about longer-term trips and privacy. Being able to shut the door on one's "mess" is a bit neater than trying to pull the curtains. Speaking of which, it'd help if the curtains were just a couple of inches wider. Right now they're cut so close as to make it a bit difficult to completely close the area. Not a big deal, but a little more material in the width would be nice.

We'll be adding a TV to the forward berth, probably next season. What kids will put up with to watch TV is probably different that adults. Both my wife and I find it uncomfortable to sit on the sofa to watch the galley TV for the duration of a whole movie. It really puts a strain on the neck. But unless we mounted it on the back of the door to the head (completely impractical) there's no other place that would work any better. The aft bulkhead wall would be even worse as the sofa's not wide enough for two people to lay side-by-side comfortably. It'd be fine for the person sitting in the foward position but someone sitting aft on the sofa would be trading an upward neck cramp for a right-facing one. Just not an ideal setup for TV viewing either way.

One change I did on our boat was to take the audio-out from the DVD player and feed it into the (unused) AUX input of the Clarion head unit. This way we get movie sound out the cabin speakers (and arch, fwiw). I then took the audio output from our iPod and ran it into the DVD player's input. When the DVD player is turned it passes the audio right through. Works pretty nicely and avoided having to add anything other than audio cables. Although why Four Winns didn't just do with Clarion's own multimedia gear is a mystery. Clarion's got the ability to add TV and DVD via CE-Net and it'd be integrated for control from the head unit. Go figure.

Bearing in mind you could also use that AUX input scheme with a video game console. Take it a step further and use a switchbox and you could get both an iPod (or other player) and the game box. The external DVD player they include (is it still the same for 2007?) passes through both audio AND video. Trying to get video into the back of the TV directly is a bit of a challenge as there's not a lot of room in how it's mounted on the cabinet door. Using the DVD player's input save you that hassle. But I suspect if you wanted to let the kids play video games on the boat it'd probably be friendlier to just add a drop-down TV in the rear berth and plug into it directly.

Good point about slip fees. But the smart ones ask for LOA, and seem to use the internet to actually check it! Not that any of us would cheat a marina though, right? (grin)

And on a completely unrelated note, I drove VW's new V10 diesel powered Toureg SUV yesterday. Holy smokes has that thing got TORQUE and speed. But they're crazy wanting $65k for it. Look like we'll end up with the Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7L hemi instead.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:17 pm 
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Tadpole

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:15 pm
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Man you got it rough. I wish I had it so bad. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:52 pm 
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Dolphin

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:37 pm
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Location: USA
wkearney99 wrote:
One change I did on our boat was to take the audio-out from the DVD player and feed it into the (unused) AUX input of the Clarion head unit.


How did you do that? I'd like to make that mod as well. Was it a pain to get behind the panel to put the patch cord in?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:55 pm 
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Dolphin

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:37 pm
Posts: 85
Location: USA
wkearney99 wrote:
And on a completely unrelated note, I drove VW's new V10 diesel powered Toureg SUV yesterday. Holy smokes has that thing got TORQUE and speed. But they're crazy wanting $65k for it.


Same way I felt about the '05 & '06 Mercedes E320 CDI. Hauls butt and makes really neat sounds at idle and just above. Not willing to part with $56K for a car though....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:44 am 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
Posts: 2444
Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
First_Mate wrote:
How did you do that? I'd like to make that mod as well. Was it a pain to get behind the panel to put the patch cord in?


Getting things wired wasn't too difficult.

NOTE: if you're going to be working in these areas it's a VERY GOOD IDEA to unplug yourself from shore power! There's live 110vac up in the panel. You do NOT want to risk shorting it out and electrocuting yourself!

When working with the radio/dvd you may want to remove the whole panel's door to allow better access. There's one screw on each hinge, use a marker with a fine point to note the position of the screws. Their position controls how far in/out the door is set.

To remove the radio you need to pry the 'ears' off the front of the radio head unit. You open the CD door and the side plastic pries off outward. Under there are four screws, once they're removed you can pull the head unit out. There should be "just enough" slack to make this possible. You need to find the aux input cable, it has two RCA jacks on it. This is where you'd plug a patch cord in from the DVD player. You cannot see this area from behind the panel, it's too far up and inside.

The DVD player had "just enough" room along the sides of it to allow me to find and connect the patch cables. The cables are labelled. There's a round hole behind the DVD player. There's set of RCA inputs that will be free. Also note the left/right/video out connections.

If you want to share the DVD audio between the TV and the radio you'll need to get an amplifier. I tried it and if you just use a plain splitter there won't be enough signal to drive them both. I added an audiovox video amp to handle this. I put the video amp up inside the access hatch beneath the stairs. I put the amp upside down, right next to the Sirius radio module. Next time I would have put it vertically along the back of the panel wall that faced the stairs. Putting it in upside down leaves the chance that a lot of wave pounding action might let the RCA connectors work loose. For mine I just made sure the cables are plugged in securely and FIRMLY held in place with tie wraps looped through hold-down pads (with their own screw).

Then I ran an RCA extension to the iPod's cable. The iPod cable has left/right/video RCA connectors. It also has positive and negative leads to allow charging the iPod. I ran this cable to the outside bulkhead. I cheated and just ran it between the panelling and the vinyl. If you open the locker at the aft end of the sofa and feel along the outside port edge you'll notice the gap. Next time I'd do this "better" using the holes that the wire for the thermostat run through. But that would've require me to remove the back of the sofa and I didn't want to get into that at that time.

If you're going to remove the back of the sofa you HAVE TO use a power screwdriver. The screws they used are 2" long and you'd have a sore wrist and blistered palm if you tried removing them manually. For me it was a good time to purchase a DeWalt *right angled* power screwdriver. The right angled head will help you remove the access hatch under the stairs too.

So my cabling runs from the iPod, down inside the sofa locker (between it and the vinyl) and then likewise behind the aft bulkhead. From there it connects to an RCA extension cable and runs through the round hole behind the DVD player and into the RCA input on it. From there I ran an RCA patch cord (left/right/audio) from the outputs on the DVD player to a video amp just inside the access hatch. From the amp I ran two patch cables, one back to the cabling feeding the TV (which I pulled back out through the backside of the hole behind the DVD player) and another one to the AUX input of the radio.

I used silicone tape around where the extension cables connect to maintain both a firm connection and help keep them sealed. Make sure you securely attach all cables. You'll see how the other stuff is secured, follow their lead. Use used tie-wraps into screwed-down square mounts (not just their adhesive). You could also use tie-wraps with the screw-eye built into them.

If all you want is iPod audio then just run right to the radio's AUX input. But I find being able to have both the iPod AND the DVD audio to be quite nice. I really improves watching movies on the TV. And since the DVD player automatically handles passing iPod signals it's easy to use on a regular basis. Just play DVDs as usual and it automatically shuts off the iPod input. Likewise, just turn off the DVD player and it passes the iPod through.

When running this wire it really helps to remove the stairs. The access panel will come off without removing the stairs. If you have the vacuum option you remove it first and then remove the access panel. Removing the stairs is easy but there's a lot of screws. Remove the four bolts up top and the all the screws in the pedestals. You'll have to remove the treads in order to reassemble the stairs, so you can start by taking them off to start with. Depending on your size there might be enough room to work by just removing a couple of the treads. Putting the stairs back is a bit of a chinese puzzle. Put the metal pole back first, loosely reattach one side of the treads and then reconnect the shorter pole. You'll have some pulling and repositioning to do. But when ou get the main pole installed first you can use it for leverage.

Removing the stairs is also a task perfectly suited for the right angle cordless drill. DO NOT attempt to use some cheapie 'stick type' of cordless screwdriver. Those don't have enough torque or battery life. Get the 18v DeWalt unit, you won't regret it.

So while it sounds like a big job it's not all that difficult. Just plan on it taking the better part of a whole day. I learned how to do it along the way and it ended up taking me several days.

It's best to start by removing the door to the radio/breaker panel. Remove the stairs, open the access panel, lay an old pillow over the edge of the access hatch. Mount the video amp. Detach the DVD video out cables, attach a Male/Male patch cable to them. Attach a Male/Female extension to the leads running to the TV. Feed both the patch and extension back out that round hole behind the DVD player. Run them to the amp. Video outputs, obviously, into the amp input and then the extension off one of the amp outputs. Run a power and ground wire from the video amp back up to the breaker panel. Attach it to the breaker feeding the radio. You could 'steal' power/ground from the audio amplifier instead of going back up to the panel. But you're going to have to power the iPod's cable too and that's closer to the breaker panel. Now run a Male/Male cable from an amp output to the AUX input of the radio.

Next, since the iPod cable has a wide connector it's best to run the cable from that end. Feed the power and RCA cable down from the shelf, behind the blinds. If you're removing the back of the sofa then run the wires down through the same hole that the thermostat uses. Otherwise 'cheat' and run the wire between the aft cabinet bulkhead and the vinyl on the hull. From there use an RCA Male/Female extension to get you enough length to reach the back of the radio. Most iPod cables aren't long enough to make this distance and still leave enough slack to let you use the iPod's click wheel controls. Feed that extension into the round hole behind the DVD player and into the input on the DVD player. Then attach the power/ground to the breaker for the radio.

It *may* be easier to feed the iPod extension through the hole from the front first and then reconnect it to the iPod cable. But since you'll want to securely wrap the extension with tape that may not be practical. Reaching up to this hole will make it clear why you need to remove the stairs. There's just not enough room to get yourself in there to make the reach if the stairs are still in place. The pillow saves your back.

Finally, secure all wiring to prevent it from flapping around.

There, that explain it? And no, I don't have pictures to post.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:22 am 
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no pics?? :cry:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:52 pm 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
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Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
It was involved 'enough' doing the work. I wasn't inclined to go taking pictures of it while trying to get it done. And now that everything's buttoned back up it'd be sort of useless.

It's a real B*TCH getting up inside that hatch when you're 6'4". Thus laying a pillow, NOT one of the ones on the rear berth, on the opening is required. I brought along one from home and a ratty old work quilt to pad the opening. Otherwise it just cuts hard into your back as you're laying half in/out of the hatch trying to reach up to the wiring.

Thus since it's such a pain to get into the panel I'm less than inclined to go pulling it all apart again just to take pictures. I'll try, however, to take them the next time I have to go in there. Which may be sometimes this winter for when I install my BlueSea current limiter. Just having one house battery means it's possible for an afternoon/overnight to run it down. While I'm going to add some more batteries this winter (probably two golf cart 6v in series) I'd still like to have something that cuts off 'less important' devices should the power go too low.

Other stuff I've modded in there was to add a hub between the raymarine e-80 in the helm and the sirius weather module I installed up inside the same access hatch. Since it's plain ethernet I didn't see much sense to pay for raymarine's version.

I also put a pair of 12v sockets on each side of the radio. Now I can charge my cell phone (and the wife's) inside the panel. There's enough space next to the CD changer and DVD player for the phones to sit. I also use those same places to store the chargers when they're not connected. Speaking of which, NEVER leave chargers or 12v adapters connected when not in use! I've had two aftermarket ones cook themselves. Granted, that wasn't in the boat but I'd hate to see anyone's boat catch fire because of leaving a charger/adapter connected, so be careful.

I'm thinking about installing a 12v socket somewhere low on the sofa. When using a laptop while seated at the table it's a bit annoying to have to run a the cord up over the back of the sofa all the way back to the panel. I'd like to have something kept the wires running downward. But unless I hack a hole in the front of the sofa's leather there's really not a good place for a plug. I might go with something inside the gap when you pop the seat outward for the sleeping position. But given the risks of leaving 12v devices connected I'm less than pleased with that location.

Tough having choices, eh?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:32 am 
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Dolphin

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:37 pm
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Location: USA
Wow, thanks for the detailed explanation on how to do this!

We should probably start another thread called "348V Audio Modifications" or some such and copy/paste your last two posts so that other folks can find this in the future.

How is the DVD player currently attached to the TV? RCA patch cable or RG6? If there are an extra set of RCA outputs on th DVD, I'd be tempted to just attach them to the AUX inputs on the Clarion head unit. Then plug the iPod into the extra set of passthru inputs on the front of the DVD. Then, no "heavy duty" wiring or stairs removal such as you did would be required. Also, no audivox amp...

Assumption correct?

I realize this wouldn't allow me to put an iPod input in the cockpit however. But that's not really important to me. Neither are the 12V recepticles. We just fire up the genset every now and then to charge things up....

As for the batteries, where would you put a pair of 6V series batteries? Not much room there on my boat. Plus, the Optima gel battery I have for a house battery does a pretty good job.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:59 am 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
Posts: 2444
Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
The TV is fed via three cables with RCA connectors. I don't know the type of wire. It runs out around in front of the lip under the windshield (inside the cabin, of course). There's also a coax line running along the starboard gunwale that runs up through the radar arch to the antenna.

There are not a spare set of outputs on the DVD player. Thus you MUST use an amplifier if you want to feed both the TV and the head unit. I tried it with just a splitter and it seriously degrades the line level of the audio (and presumably would end up harming the output amp in the DVD player). I don't recall if the TV has pass-through connectors or not. But given that an AV amp is about $50 it's sorta pointless to suffer the hassle of running cables to use them (were they present) anyway. You could also just stop feeding audio to the TV and run it just to the head unit. I like having the TV's speakers remain working as it gives a better effect. It's not 'surround sound' by any stretch but honestly it's not THAT important to have utterly precise 3D sound on a boat...

Having 12v receptacles lets you use automobile chargers. Do not discount the space wasted and the cluttered look created by using 100vac 'wall wart' adapters.

Removing the stairs is really no harder than removing an access panel. When you've got an 18v power screw driver it's quite simple. I can remove/replace it in about 20 minutes. I actually had to do this as we hit a patch of pounding waves and the clarion CE-Net cable that fed the sirius unit actually popped loose. I couldn't quite reach it with just the hatch opened so I pulled the stairs. Lots of screws but a simple enough task.

You DO NOT WANT the ipod in the cockpit or at the helm. Not unless you put it inside a waterproof enclosure. Marine moisture will RUIN it, and not just spray or rain. I find it's usually good to configure either a playlist at home or use a genre to play the music. Set it in shuffle mode and let it play. I have a Griffin RF remote but don't end up using it all that often. Over the winter I'm going to investigate what it'd take to extract signals from the clarion wired remote signals and use them to control an ipod. But given this past summer's experience I'm not sure it's worth the effort.

There's a big shelf in the swim platform that seems like it'd have plenty of room.

But yes, if all you want is iPod input then get a cable and run the audio directly into it.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:25 pm 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
Posts: 2444
Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
Saw the new 2007 358 at the Annapolis show. Noticed a few new things.

Like the floor insert infront of the galley sink. It's glued down, in two pieces to allow it to be removed with the waste tank cover. As my tank sender has died twice (on the winter fix list) this would appear to be a 'good thing'. The carpet is fitted around the insert. Retrofitting would be as easy as installing the panels and getting the carpet's edging reshaped to fit.

They've added a vent over the cockpit fridge/icemaker. This is necessary change. The icemaker in ours really cranks out the heat, such that I've been considering having the door altered to allow better flow. This vent grille is a better idea, one I'm likely to add before next season.

The steps are now 'regular' ones. They're sort of big and bland looking but they do the job. They do bite into the cabin space a bit but not enough for anyone to ever care about. I'll say this though, the new steps being on a single pedestal does offer easier clearance to the AC grille. The vacuum unit location is swapped with the grill vent cover and appears to be some other brand, didn't test it but I'm sure it "sucks". (heh)

Countertop colors are different. We've got (and prefer) the lighter style. Not sure what's still offered choice-wise but the dark style we saw was nice looking too.

Other than the entirely bogus renaming from '348' to '358' there really doesn't appear to be much else they've changed beyond small improvements here and there.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:41 pm 
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Mental Floss

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We looked at one at the tampa boat show last weekend. The wife really liked the aft cabin door. It was inboards. I asked about IPS since they had a 378 there with IPS and joystick. Hopefully in a year it will be sold with the IPS and joystick combo. based on the speeds they told me about the 378, the 358 should be very nimble with the VP 400 diesels and IPS

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