www.iFourWinns.com

Hey Lou

The number they seem to be talking is alot higher, they can't really give me a quote because there is no telling how far it goes. It might even make it to the front double berth !

The only way is going to be cutting out some of the nice cleanly finished cabin floor in front of say the kitchen, basically the boat will never be the same again.

What was it worth, I would say in a fire sale A$150k. I was thinking of advertising it as a fix up job - maybe someone in the boatbuilding industry could pick it up and do the work themselves. They would end up with a good boat and I might be able to recoup some cash !

Brett

That just unbelievable.

Your only option may be to use the legal system but how much will that set you back if it gets you no where.

Have you had any further contact from Four Winns or any other association etc.

I notice in an earlier response from Brett248Vista about contacting Boat US, have you made conact and if so were they any help ?

Yes I have made contact with Boat US they were very friendly and asked for more information so they could campare to cases in the current FW complaints section.

I replied this morning Aussie time so hopefully I will find out more later tonight on their thoughts.

Im am pretty overwhelmed at the whole thing now, so any help or advice from them will be great.

Brett

Brett,

I really feel for you. What a beautiful boat which is turning into a money pit. From the tone of your replies you're being much calmer and more level headed then I would be. I already would have been on the previous owners doorstep demanding an explanation of what if anything they did to the boat. My lawyer would be on speed dial and my blood pressure would be through the roof. In your case the calm and level headed approach is a good starting point. If all else fails, blow your gasket

I think BoatUS if your best course of action if indeed this is proven to be a factory error. They are a very powerful boat lobby here in the states and hopefully can help.

_________________
-Tom
2003 298 Vista

Thanks for the reply,

I have tracked down the two previous owners through the dealer and looks like they have done nothing but look after it. One had it less than 12 month, bought a bigger boat, the second for just over 12 months and wasn't using it.

It has never had a warranty claim on it !!!

I am just starting the legal process now, but I am a little concerned at the cost.

As for being level headed, I lost it last week when it first came to light just how stuffed it was but I need to focus now on getting FW to pay some cash to fix it.

I am starting to wind up again mind you with the lack of response from FW to my last 2 emails, detailing the damage via Mechanics report and the photos they initially requested !!

Thanks
Brett

Hello All

Could I ask a favour please ?

Anyone with a 2004 +/- Vista 328, would it be possible t get a photo of the starboard engine bulkhead wall please.

If you could aim a camera up under the floor that genset sits on in front of starboard motor.

Thanks if its possible.

Brett

Just an update, eventually have mapped where the rot seems to have ended !!

It is present at the shower sump access point and the tank monitor inspection hole but has not made it to the cupboard under the v berth. So somewhere in between !!! Will need to cut inspection holes in the moulded floor.

We were able to pull out the cupboard under the forward vberth today and the timber stringers seem quite solid still - but I will add the worst glassing job I have ever seen....the glass sheets were not even cut to size just placed on, if it ever got wet up there - then rot city from the front as well.....

Every trade professional that has been on the boat so far is in complete amazement of the decay of such a young boat (2004), and in the fibreglass/boat builders words today - "I have seen badly built boats but never this bad, everyone pays out on the chinese but they build better boats than this ".... Surely mines a one off...

It's a little soul destroying when you have paid $200k for a boat that is rotting from the inside out because of poor build quality control.

I hope no one else suffers this fate because Four Winns are not supportive in any way.

I will post more photo's later, you will be amazed !!!!

Cheers
Bett

Some new photo's

http://s999.photobucket.com/albums/af11 ... sta%20328/

Don't want to be alarmist but if you have a 2004 328 Vista please take a look below deck, not just a look a tap - one of the main sign of problems was the engine bay centre support, from the top you can pivot it 100 degress goes through the stringer like cheese. Everything on my boat looked fine until it started leaking.

Grab a screw driver an tap the stringers, mine immediately get to wet ply.

Worth the time to check if there are others one will sink risking lives.

Cheers
Brett

I'm very much hoping that Four Winns will step up at some point and at least provide some guidance and assistance here. I no longer own my Four Winns but I had a 2007 358. My recollection of my boat is that no part of the boat I ever saw resembled the construction techniques used in your boat. My boat well glassed stringers in all of the visible areas. I did an extensive amount of wiring throughout the boat that required removing cabinets, panels, etc and even in those areas never intended to see the light of day I never saw anything that looks like yours. Everything was amply glassed and well protected. That leaves me wondering, is it really possible Four Winns improved their construction techniques that much between 2004 and 2007? I know teh 348/358 is a newer design than the 328, did they change build specs extensively at that time? What could account for this huge difference in quality? I'm at a loss to explain why your boat was built the way it was. I agree the construction quality and techniques just don't look acceptable. I'm also a little surprised your surveyor didn't raise any concerns about any of this at the time of survey. I know that you've uncovered areas that weren't as visible, but some of these areas look like they should have been evident in an inspection.

Ben

_________________
2001 Cruisers 4450
Volvo TAMD-74P 480hp Diesels

Exactly my thoughts as well. A good surveyor, with moisture meter and experience would never have missed this. Something is just not right with this whole story, despite the pictures detailing the construction. Sad as it is, I would not expect much help or sympathy from FW .

For example, here is a recent survey done for a friend of mine on a boat he was looking at. These things mentioned in your 328 Vista, would surely have been found by an accredited marine surveyor.

_________________
One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

Well when I took mine apart...my stringers looked kinda like those pix...not glassed all the way up and not that much glass either....I guess since boats in some cases are still made by hand..not like cars welded by robots...this can happen if they have a bad crew on the job that day...but for sure I learned if I ever get another boat...it's going to get checked out by a surveryor for sure..even if new!

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Thanks for the reply's

Just a quick question Capt n Morgan - How old was the boat your friend surveyed ?

I did have this boat out of water surveyed at the time but I don't think they start pulling out cabinets etc on a two year old boat (age when I bought it) to trace build quality problems (wish they had !!). I am certain my bloke didn't have a Tramex Skipper on the job which may have found the problem then. Having said that, if I had have sold the boat last year and got it surveyed all of these problems would have been picked up because of the time they had to continue developing.

I personally think the only way this problem would have been found at my purchase point would have been getting an invasive survey and dilling some samples in the engine room bulk head. Mind you, I think Luigi the contortionist would have had problems getting there.

But at the end of the day the boat was built wrong, if I was the first owner I would never have had the need to get a survey, and the problem would still have been there.......

Thanks again for the comments.

Cheers
Brett

My 298 is a 2003 and I can say with 100% certainty the glass job looks nothing like those pictures. I've been all around the engine room, fwd bilge, and shower pump compartment. I've never seen ANY exposed wood. It seriously looks like someone home made that boat and slapped a Four Winns badge on it.

_________________
-Tom
2003 298 Vista

OK, time for a stupid basic question:

How would I check for transom rot? My boat is 20 yrs old and has one of the old-school bolt-on teak swim platforms. One of the thru bolts was pulling out and I re-sunk a new SS thru-bolt with a larger washer and it seems to be a little "soft" where the thru-bolt is. I'm putting a SS plate behind it next and re-doing it so I have more grip.

Is there an easy/amateur way of checking for internal rot in the transom?

Very interesting thread. Makes me want to go buy a pontoon boat.

_________________
Vic
"Byte Me"
1989 Vista 245
Lake Norman, NC

Gee - I love to know what the guy that surveyed it when you purchased it (from the gold coast if I recall ) has to say for himself ?

And if he was associated with the dealer.