www.iFourWinns.com

I am an owner of a 2007 220 Horizon. She has a Merc 300 HP Magnum, Bravo I. I have only 69.8 hours on the boat (purchased as demo with 30 already on her), as we got it in the fall of 2007, the boating season was over. In spring of '08, after terrible flooding, we had limited use of the boat. OK, all fine and dandy. Now for an issue I am ready to take FourWinns to court over!

After telling we it was a bad prob, and sending me a new one, they said my ventilation problem was over (that took all of 2008 to make happen!). IN EVERY TURN, ABOVE 20 MPH (you know like while pulling someone tubing) THE BOAT/PROP VENTILATES, LOSES 10-15 MPH, RPMs NEARLY HIT WOT, AND THE TUBER I AM PULLING GETS AN UNSAFE AMOUNT OF SLACK BEFORE I CAN ADJUST! I am getting no where with fourwinns, as they will not return calls, letters, or emails, the dealer is stumped, and now unwilling to help.

I have over $50,000 invested in my first fourwinns, and am ready to legally make them take it back and give me a/my SeaRay back! Has anyone else had this problem with their Horizon, or with FourWinns? I have been boating my whole life, have had 3 boats as an adult, and have never seen a problem like this. The discussions I have had with prop and out-drive people say it may be the "X" dimension may have been cut incorrectly in the transom, allowing the prop to be too close to the surface. It is the only thing that makes sense to me at this point.

And now I am finding all sorts of of other poor quality issues with the 'glass on this boat. I am about to become their worst nightmare if I cannot get some answers and some help, NOW. Anyone with a suggestion, please respond to this post, or email me, mbrbemt@aol.com. The only way this could get worse is if I looked to Obama for help. Thanks

Mike,

I don't think you're a long lost "Roberts " cousin of mine, but glad to offer some observation nevertheless!

For a boat to lose so much mph in turns even with a single prop, there's something very wrong; is it the outdrive trim? don't believe the trim gauge, if the drive is trimmed up too much there's no "grip". I can do a maximum turn manoevre in my 245 at 30 mph and lose maybe 5 mph

Graham

how high of a banked turn are you trying to make?

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Yeah, I'm with Graham on this one..... I've been a lifetime boat owner as well. I've found my FW to be very finicky when it comes to hard turns and trim. Basically, if the trim ain't all down.... you aren't gonna like it. My issues were not as extreme as you describe. However, my 5-blade cured my ills completely! Now I can go into a HARD 180 at near WOT/full speed like it's on rails, and never get below 30 by GPS. No cavitation, over-rev, or any problems like that either.

My 2 cents.... a large number of the threads in this forum are prop related. Your issue could be as well.

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Walt B
"Debt-Charged"
Black '07 H210SS
6.2L Bravo One turning a 21P HIFive
Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
Missouri River; Kansas City, Mo.

I am not sure of any family relation. I have family in Cincinnati Ohio, Evansville Indiana, and Just outside Knoxville Tennessee. And my father Tom just passed away 2 months ago in Tennessee.

As far as the drive question goes. I have not trimmed it up at all. And you are right about the gauge being inaccurate, no matter hoe many times I try and 'tweak/adjust it', it never is right. I never had a problem on my SeaRays, I am getting an uncomfortable feeling about this new brand...

And the amount of the turn varies with the weight of the kids or adults tubing, and how much of a 'ride' they want. But I would say I turn the wheel relatively fast about a 1/4 of a turn or so, keep it there for a short period of time (again depending on the rider and the speed), and then go back the other way.

I guess I do not feel I am operating this boat any different than I have my last two, or any other I have ever driven to pull people tubing. It also bothers me, aside from being brushed aside after giving FourWinns a rather large amount of money, that this ventilation occurs worse when I am towing someone, and not when I am driving with a few on board and turning similar. That tells me it does not take much to make it happen, which further tells me it is at/over its performance limit. And that is a pretty low performance limit for the money. I feel more and more every day that I was taken for a ride, they know it and am going to do nothing about it. IF that is the case, regardless of how big a company they are, I will make sure they are hurt much more than the price of my boat with the number of people I will turn off to their boat.

I would expect this from say a Bayliner (aren't they bankrupt now?), but that is not the quality level, or so I thought. I am getting more angry by the day, as my 2008 boating season is drawing to a close with now a 2 season issue still not resolved, and the depreciation on my once new boat, simply due to the calendar. Sorry to ramble, but I am rather upset about the way this whole situation has been handled, or not handled. If we are related, I have a great deal on a low hour boat...

What is your dealer's opinion of the problem? When you say they are unwilling to help, can you be more specific? Did you test drive the boat before buying it?

Troublesome problems can often be helped a great deal by a service-oriented dealer. I've seen FW take concerns much more seriously when they were voiced, or backed up, by one of their dealers. But that sometimes means getting a different dealer involved.

I think you'll find as much empathy and concern here as anywhere else - probably more. But to be perfectly honest I'm not sure what value there is in throwing around repeated threats on this and other forums. I mean, no one on this board is going to buy your boat back.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

My dealer has given up and turned it over to FourWinns to figure it out. I am sure it is economy related, but customer service is what makes repeat customers. I wonder where I won't go when it is then next new boat time...

So... they agree it's a problem but don't know what to do about it, or they don't agree it's a problem, or they haven't ridden with you to see what you mean, or what?

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

I have a 2007 H220 with a 5.7 Gi Volvo SX drive. My boat will turn on a dime at 30+ mph. My buddy has a Glastron 235 and it will cavitate and skate out on a hard turn.

I am surprised that you are having these issues and would agree that the 'X' dimension may be in question. I am comparing a Volvo to a Merc outdrive of course but this still doesn't sound right.

Last outing I had friends out and had the water almost up to the rub rail with no prop blow out on a hard turn. I can power into a full lock turn and the prop will continue to bite the water. Coming out of a hard turn the prop will give up some bite but that makes sense as you are lifting the leg out of the water as you straighten out the turn.

What are the 'glass issues you are having?

Hope you can get this resolved. I personally have found FourWinns to be very good at dealing with issues but there seems to be resource constraints at the home office these days.

+1 Mike

Ours (Merc) turns fine as well. I think it'something to do with having enough time in the saddle on this new boat. I have had several boats in the past too but what you think is a problem may end up being operator induced (trim, load distribution, speed, wind, wake, etc etc)??? IMO

Well, I do have a sense that the boat might have a serious problem. I just think it's going to take a dealer to get it resolved. Anyone know how high on the X dimension a drive would have to be mis-installed to cause this? And if it was installed that high, would it cause coupler problems?

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

I think its a little known secret respecting Merc Products. I had to jump through hoops just to get a stupid owners manual for my brand new 9.9 (everyone wanted to sell me one for $30 )
Anyway, after talking to reps and support someone finally directed me to the Brunswick Marine Support site that has all the manuals, installation drawings etc.
It's miserable to use - I took the liberty of searching for stuff you questioned about. There is a Bravo I side elevation with expected install angles and dimensions right on top. More detailed drawings for the 350 Mag stuff is 3/4 of the way down and Bravo I install tempates are on the bottom.


A good link for anyone with Merc Stuff AFAIAC.

It is slow loading, searching and downloading but some good resources. Good Luck!

http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/download/dosearch/@isnew/desc?mod=7&lang=EN&categories=MERCRUISER$

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2008 Four Winns 210 5.7 GI/SX
2007 GMC Sierra 2500 Crew
1966 Fed-Up Wife

I am not even thinking of someone in a forum like this to buy it, it is a tongue in cheek joke. But the frustration is enough that I would be willing to rent a half page in a major news paper and simply tell the facts, and see how many people would contact me in support. Trailer Boats magazine in the tech letters might address this, I am not sure.

The x dimension is something that a serious propeller repair facility talked to me about. He is actually looking to see what the exact dimension is between the bottom of the keel, and the anti-ventilation plate needs to be, that is the easiest/only way this dimension can be checked, without removing the out-drive.

I would have to disagree with the in the saddle time needed to get used to this boat. I have had hundreds of hours on many different kids of boats, I was a dock master at a yacht club for many years, I know how boats are supposed to operate, and not operate, what to expect, and what is not normal. I have driven dozens of different run-abouts, bow riders, ski boats, whatever you want to call them. I have NEVER had a boat perfrom the way this one does. The only thing more embarrasing that having the engine rev up, & speed drop like it does with others on board is that the United States has a clueless president. If I wasn't worried about my credit, I would just let the bank come take it some day, but I don't wish this on anyone else either. I am close to having the CEO of FourWinns telephone number. Maybe an honest concerned call to him might work. I can start nice, but like Archie Bunker used to say; "There is only so much niceness in me, and once it is all used up..."

Thanks for the web link. I will try it, and see where I can get. I also might simply contact some people I know at Merc, since they are just up the road a piece in Wisconsin here, and let them know I need help since Fourwinns is not supporting their product.

I'm no expert, but it sounds more like a defective drive from Merc rather than directly attributed to Four Winns and could have just as easily happened with any other brand using Merc outdrives.

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-Rob.


Current boat: 2011 Yamaha AR210
Previous boat: 1998 Horizon RX 4.3GL SX