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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:50 pm 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
Posts: 2444
Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
I've gotten tossed around in some pretty rough conditions. The forces involved can be substantial. For small stuff it's not a big deal. But as you start dealing with larger masses it can be a problem. Essentially the weight starts acting like a lever, pulling a lot harder due to sudden shifts. The weight 'stays moving' in one direction while the base gets slammed back in another. Inertia's a bitch. That's why hea

If/when I get around to doing something similar I'd consider at least some additional means to limit how much it could move. Remember, glues dry out, boards delaminate, foam breaks down, etc. But as you discovered with the previous setup, mechanical fasteners tend to keep hanging on. Just a thought.

Otherwise, nice work! Definitely gives me something to think about. I'd be thinking of using a couple of those half-dome shaped isolation mounts. Those are used under the generator (to a lame effect though). But I'm guessing your foam and cork sandwich would be easier to install and probably work better anyway.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:55 pm
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Location: Cape Coral
wkearney99 wrote:
... half-dome shaped isolation mounts...


I'm told by a home machinist friend that Sorbothane is the stuff. He's used it under his lathes and mills, he says, to end a battle with a neighbor who perpetually complained that he hummed the Earth when he was cutting something. [The same neighbor mounted a whole-house genset outside my friend's bedroom window.]

I see three effects overnight after closing the compartment. Longer cycles, the temperature swing in the cabin is a degree or so less, and the signal locker now sees a half-degree of cycling. The locker is ventilated by a small blower that gets its air from behind the cockpit wall below the gunwale so some cooling is getting out of the cabin; I imagine I can live with that as long as it doesn't sweat. I suspect this is the result of the negative pressure in the AC compartment, drawing some air in on that side and exhausting it elsewhere. Overdiagnosed, I guess, but that's what engineers are plagued to do.

Image

Tom

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:27 pm 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
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Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
Heh, I just had a Generac whole-house generator installed about two months ago. It's about the same noise level as an idling UPS truck. Certainly not whisper quiet but more or less just background noise once it's been on for a few hours. We lost power for 3 days recently due to an unexpectedly strong thunderstorm. I offered my two adjacent neighbors power for their fridges through an extension. Voltage drop was only a few volts over the distance. Kept their food from spoiling. Meanwhile it was life as usual here in the house. Gotta love a 20kw genset... The recent outage has pushed several to start plans on getting one of their own too.

What did your cork and foam cost? How'd you decide what material to use?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:41 pm 
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Location: Cape Coral
wkearney99 wrote:
... Generac whole-house generator...

We have a 15kW Generac, too, now almost 10 years old. We saved the neighborhood's frozen foods for three days and nights of no power after Charlie by firing up two garage refrigerators, leaving the garage door open for them. Still, we shut the genset down at 11:00PM or so each night; when there are no other sounds except your genset, like it or not you become a nuisance. We've needed it a number of other times, too, usually for a few hours at a time after a storm. It is nice to have where we are, at the end of the line.

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What did your cork and foam cost? How'd you decide what material to use?


I got the foam sheet from Mermaid, local for me, for $14, and the cork came from http://www.corkstore.com ~$20 shipped. I have half of the "QuietCORK" 6mm sheet left. I've used cork in the past for several projects (great under turntables and heavy speakers), so it's a favorite material. I chose Weldwood Contact Cement and painted an entire 16oz can on the eight surfaces.

The isolator is an approximation of an electronic high-pass filter, but the actual composition is the result of what was inexpensive, available and seemed rational. I asked both Mermaid and the cork supplier if they had technical specs regarding the materials, but learned little. Lacking other things to do, it would someday be interesting to determine if these can truly be tuned to minimize the conduction of compressor vibration. I was tempted, for example, to use two thinner foam sheets and a sheet of lead in the center, more like an electronic "T". This works very well, though, so the motivation to pursue it further is reduced.

Tom

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:45 pm 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
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Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
We lost power for 8 days after Isabelle. But there wasn't budget for a genset. That and the admiral was out of town the whole time, and this was before the birth of our boy. So it was basically just me left to swelter at home. But then we lost power for four days in the middle of a big snow storm this last Winter. Wife and kid at home this time. Thus a genset got ordered. Glad to have it now.

I know what you're saying about the nuisance factor, but in conversations with neighbors they've all been in agreement that during a multi-day outage like that it's really not been something that bothered them. We're very lucky to have agreeable neighbors (and try to be likewise in return).

What's Mermaid? Searching didn't bring up useful info. Thanks for the corkstore link. It's astounding what materials you can find online these days.

I know what you mean about learning little from the specs. I've learned to try and avoid that now. It doesn't usually make sense to become over-informed for a one-shot job. Good enough, cheap and right now wins every time (in so many things in life...)

I'm going to get some measurements from my AC unit next week and see what it'll take to fashion a similar setup. My unit seems to be louder than it was before. I've no idea why. Could be a failed pad like yours. If I'm going to fix it I might as well consider a pad setup like you've done. It's such cramped quarters inside the cabinet. If I'm going to fix it then it might as well be something that does a better job.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:04 pm 
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Tom

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:41 pm 
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On a related issue, I can think of two easy methods of improving dehumidification at night, when the compressor typically runs infrequently. One is to throttle the airflow, either via blower speed or restriction. The other is to simultaneously add heat by cycling the electric heat element in the unit while cooling.

Throttling the airflow brings risk of freezing the evaporator, I imagine, and adding heat increases the power load, obviously. Ordinarily, at least in home cooling, poor dehumidification suggests the AC unit is too large - but not in boating, where the daytime cooling load is so much larger than nighttime.

Can I pick your collective brains?

Tom

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Cape Coral

'99 Four Winns 258 Vista
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/bowcam
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/cape-coral-marine-radio VHF
http://67.207.143.181/vlf9.m3u VLF: Lightning, spherics


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:38 am 
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I spoke with Mermaid about both the compressor size and dehumidification. The compressors in the two smaller units are, in fact, the same. He explains that the capacity of the unit results from a mix of the compressor capacity, and evaporator and blower size.

On dehumidification, they like the idea of adding heat so I'll give that a try. It'll need a smarter thermostat to do that, one that will pulse the heater appropriately while the unit is cooling.

They also suggested, though, that simply running the fan continuously will help.

Tom

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Tom
Cape Coral

'99 Four Winns 258 Vista
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/bowcam
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/cape-coral-marine-radio VHF
http://67.207.143.181/vlf9.m3u VLF: Lightning, spherics


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