www.iFourWinns.com

It is nice to be able to talk to other 328 boat owners and share experiences so I like this Four Winns boating forum. I have encountered something unusual, not all the time, when I am backing up to sandy beaches (water depth 3-4 feet) using one motor at a time as we set the anchor. The Volvo motor outdrives are trimmed up for shallow water (maybe 7 seconds and still what I believe to be within the proper motor trim according to my gauges if they are correct). However, this summer about 6 times out of 30 uses, while backing up using each motor separately to maintain slow speed and straight reversing, the steering wheel shakes back and forth, the boat will shake, and I believe the outdrives are moving back and forth violently (but I haven’t been able to lean over the swim platform and see due to the difficult situation). I can’t stop the violent shaking unless I shut off the motors (The starboard one which has the power steering), When I retstart the motors the shaking does not reoccur. I try to stop it right away since I feel the shaking must be doing damage. I don’t feel the outdrives are hitting bottom as they are above the sandy bottom after setting anchor. My opinion is that it is either my power steering or outdrives act up sometimes when my outdrives are trimmed up during reversing. I haven’t said anything to my mechanic yet. Has anyone encountered this weird problem and do you have any opinions of what this may be? Thanks

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Mike
2001 Four Winns 328
Midland, ON, Canada
Cruising Georgian Bay
Previous boats: Doral Monticello and Chris Craft Scorpion

I am wondering if a bad (or both bad) gimble bearings may be causing this. With the drives trimmed up, you are putting additional stress on them and this may be causing them to go bad/vibrate?

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Current Boat:
2004 Sea Ray 320 Sundancer "Nauti Luvin'"

Previous Boats:
1999 298 Vista "Seas The Day"
2008 H200SS "Nauti Luv"
2006 Tahoe Q4

I've experienced something similar w/ my '96 238Vista while on the trailer in the driveway flushing........the drive is down--not fully, earmuffs on, water running, I turn the key, motor starts, the wheel shakes like you describe--I look over at the drive (since it's on the trailer) but I don't notice the drive (VolvoDP) shaking--just the steering wheel.!! I'll turn off the motor, then restart it and it's fine!! What's going on?? I had a new gimble bearing installed May 2010--35 hrs last year is all I did.....

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"For My 50th"
1996 238 Vista
5.7VolvoGL DP
Previous boats; 91 Cobia 19' Cuddy, 87 Starcraft 16' BR,
67 Winner BR, 65 Arrow 14'

My guess is you are straining your u-joints when you trim up for about 7 seconds. On my Volvo DP, if I raise for 7 seconds, I would be well above the operating range as my outdrive would be almost fully raised. You may want to have your guages & sending units checked. Or you could be feeling the beginning stages of u-joint failure.

I was getting some intermittant vibrations throughout the later in the summer. Mostly felt them while at idle speeds and turning. I could generally tap the trim button up or down and settle the vibrations down. I described my issue to my mechanic and he immediately said, "u-joints". He said what I was describing I could run for the summer and he would look at it in the fall. After he showed me my u-joints during his winterization / inspection, I am now getting new u-joints this winter.

In my case, I knew the boat had water intrusion from a torn bellows prior to me taking ownership. The gimbal bearing was replaced as a result. I should have pushed for new u-joints as well. Although they passed inspection, I knew that they could still begin to rust as a result and they sure did. If you didn't have your drives pulled this fall, I would have them pulled and inspect the u-joints (and gimbal bearings, bellows, etc) before you commission for spring.

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2005 FW Horizon 250
8.1L VP DP

This is the best I could quickly find.

When you lift the drives up, are they above the dark line at just below the 3'o'clock position? If so, you should never trim your drives above that mark while the engine is running. You only have that small window between the DN line, and the dark line above it.

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2007 358 T-5.7GXi IB
Previous Boats
'08 H240, '08 V318, '04 268, '04 225

I see you are from the Midland area Mike, you have some real nice boating destinations to explore there. Enjoy.

I too think you may have raised your outdrives a little too high with activating the outdrive trims for approximately 7 seconds. Any worn issues with the u joints likely will amplify your vibrations. I raise my drives for around 4 seconds or so as I idle up onto our local sandbar, but always take a look at how high my drives are from our swim platform once anchored and my engines are shutdown.

Mike.

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Current Boat
- 2001 Four Winns 328 Vista "Hour Decision"
- 2010 310 Mercury Inflatable

Previous Boats
- 30' Doral Prestancia
- 25' Doral Citation

Thanks for your help. I often check my outdrives after I have backed up to the beach and they still appear to be low enough, but maybe 7 seconds of trim up is too high. This spring I will definitely ask my mechanic to inspect the u-joints. I had both outdrives completely rebuilt two seasons ago and the belows replaced. Where are the u-joints or ball joints on a volvo outdrive?

Also, I had both trim gauges replaced with used gauges by my mechanic, since the gauges that in the boat when I purchased it were not working. Maybe the safe trim line (point on gauge where you should not raise your outdrives above and still operate the motors) on these gauges don't properly fit the volvo outdrives. I will ask my mechanic.

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Mike
2001 Four Winns 328
Midland, ON, Canada
Cruising Georgian Bay
Previous boats: Doral Monticello and Chris Craft Scorpion

Yes boating in Georgian Bay is wonderful (so many islands, shoals, and beaches) and trimming your motors often is neccessary. I will continue to test the trimming of my outdrives and talk to my mechanic. Maybe I am simply raising them too high when reversing.

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Mike
2001 Four Winns 328
Midland, ON, Canada
Cruising Georgian Bay
Previous boats: Doral Monticello and Chris Craft Scorpion

I know exactly what your talking about. My previous 268 would do the same thing albeit single engine. ti would usually happen at the dock when the motor was first started. The steering wheel and out drive would shake pretty bad. It didn't do it all the time. Whenever it happened I would just torn the wheel to one of the stops, left or right and hold it for a second and it would stop.

It didn't happen often enough and I never remembered to ask the mechanic when I took it in. Not sure what the cause of it was.

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Jeff

'14 Cruisers 380 Express "Simon Sez"
Merc 8.2 Mag MPI 380
DTS B3X, (x2) Axius Premier


(SOLD)
'08 V318
Merc 350 Mag MPI 300
DTS Seacore, B3 (x2)

This would concern me. You're assuming the gauge is correct, what it it's not? Gauges are notorious for being wrong.

I'd run the trim through it's range and comparing how the physical position of the drives compares to what you see on the gauge. It's entirely possible you're trimming the drives up too far. That would certainly explain the vibration. Or that they've been trimmed up too far too many times in the past and the u-joints are suffering from it.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

I don't think this is a trimming the drive up too far issue, you can get that with any outdrive, but the noise and vibration are different from what's being reported, and typically the steering wheel does not oscillate from side to side as reported here. I have heard of this issue before on Volvos and it was discussed over at iboats on the I/O forum. I'd do a search over there. I bet either Don S or Rodbolt (2 factory Volvo techs) knows what's causing it. I have an OMC Cobra with a very similar transom/gimble design to the Volvo SX. When my trim gauge has not worked (have to replace those senders every 2 seasons or so), the way I have trimmed up in shallow areas is to time it, about 6 seconds is half way up, and not high enough to cause any noise or vibration. It takes 12 sec to go from full down to full up on a Cobra, probably similar on a Volvo SX since the transom designs are nearly identical (Volvo was designed off of the OMC gimble design in the joint venture). I can't recally exactly but there is an issue with the steering system that causes this problem......

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Thanks again for your responses and I kind of agree with the last one. I do time my drive trim up as well, 6 seconds and the drives visually look like they are not up too far and I believe at least 12 seconds for full up. I do believe that when the violent shaking of the steering wheel starts and the boat vibrates, my first reaction is to shift the shifter into nuetral. You would think the the vibration would stop since the outdrive shafts and u-joints should stop turning. Yet the vibration continues as the boat drifts back. In order to gain control of the boat, I have to shut off the engine and the vibration stops immediately. Restarting the engine and the vibration is gone. It even has happened a couple of times back into my dock slip where my outdrives may only be trimmed for 3 seconds at the most. The vibration has never occurred going forward. I think it may be a power steering issue as the vibration continues while in nuetral (outdrive shaft and u-joints would not be turning then).

The next time the violent shaking happens when back up, I will attempt to make a logical response. The shifters will be shifted into neutral to see if the vibrations stops. If not, I will turn off the port motor first (no power steering pump connected) and see if vibrations lessen/stop. Finally, I will turn of starboard engine (has the power steering pump) and see if vibration stops (which it always has done in the past). this may indicate a power steering issue. Easier said then done when you are backing into your slip or between anchored boats in the wind.

Please look into the power steering issue and let me know what you find.

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Mike
2001 Four Winns 328
Midland, ON, Canada
Cruising Georgian Bay
Previous boats: Doral Monticello and Chris Craft Scorpion

I am pretty sure that the input shaft which has the u joints on it are always spinning, even in neutral so your theory of putting it in neutral and thinking it should stop vibrating may not be 100% correct.

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Current Boat:
2004 Sea Ray 320 Sundancer "Nauti Luvin'"

Previous Boats:
1999 298 Vista "Seas The Day"
2008 H200SS "Nauti Luv"
2006 Tahoe Q4

Sounds very familiar. The steering wheel jerks back and forth and sounds like the engines are coming apart. I've researched it quite a bit with no definite answer. My local volvo dealer said he's experienced it himself and thought it may be air in the hydraulic line. I'm in 25' of water around the dock, so for me it's not shallow water or trimmed unit related.
It only happens at idle, but it's happened in neutral, forward and reverse. It doesn't happen very often (maybe 5 times the entire summer) so I've always dealt with it and moved on. If I turn the wheel hard to one side or turn the engine off it stops.
Last year I pulled both outdrives and installed new u-joints, gimball bearings, and boots and it still happens, so I know it's nothing in the lower unit. I did notice I was a little low on power steering fulid, so it makes sence about getting air in the line. But it has also happened when the fluid level is fine. I hope someone does come up with a solution, I will stay tooned...

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Lakebum
2006 378 Vista
Nashville, TN
Current
04 Hustler Cheetah
06 Seadoo sportster 150
Past
06 378 vista
328 vista
240 horizon
21' glastron
20' celebrity

I haven't thought about checking the power steering fluid level yet, but i will.....just as soon as the 2 feet of snow melts here!!!!!!!!
thanks for the tip....

Steve

_________________
"For My 50th"
1996 238 Vista
5.7VolvoGL DP
Previous boats; 91 Cobia 19' Cuddy, 87 Starcraft 16' BR,
67 Winner BR, 65 Arrow 14'