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 Post subject: Corrosion
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:17 pm 
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Starfish

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:51 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Port St. Joe, FL
I need some help understanding electrolysis. Our outdrives are corroding like crazy. The boat was a repo so we thought they were corroded because it stayed in the water after the bank got it. We dry dock it and the marina mechanic mentioned that it seemed to be getting worse. I didn't know anything about corrosion from electrolysis. The mechanic told us that its being caused by something that is not wired properly...such as reverse polarity. Basically he told us it could take him 2 hours or it could take him 3 days to find it. At $85 an hour we've got to at least give it a try ourselves. Has anyone had this problem? Any suggestions? I'm assuming you would use a meter and check the connections but what would the meter show if the polarity on something was reversed?

Thanks so much,
Monica
V288

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 Post subject: Re: Corrosion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:34 am 
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268 Vista

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:49 am
Posts: 4989
Location: West Michigan
Volvo or Mercruiser outdrives on your 288 ?



Galvanic corrosion (or electrolysis) originates from electrical currents in the water surrounding the boat. Electrical currents in water are most commonly caused by boat power lines in the water, loose wires hanging in a bilge, dock wiring with improper grounding or steel rebar in seawalls. No matter which outdrive (assuming Duo Prop) you have, Both BIII's and DP's have an aluminum casing and two stainless steel propellers. When the stainless steel props are in close proximity to the aluminum housing in water an electrical current is formed between the two metals. Galvanic corrosion occurs when the weaker metal begins to lose molecules in the water. The corrosion problem will eventually damage and destroy the outdrive. Connecting dissimilar metals in an electrolyte creates a direct current (DC) “battery” and the scientific explanation as to why galvanic corrosion occurs has to do with things like migrating electrons and electrical potential. Saltwater is a more effective electrolyte than freshwater, which means that galvanic corrosion takes place more quickly in saltwater.

Are all your anodes in good shape on the drives?

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 Post subject: Re: Corrosion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:06 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:07 am
Posts: 815
Location: Freeland, MI
I found this article interesting,

Quote:
How To Find Leaking Current

A couple of boaters in our marina reported a high degree of corrosion to their outdrives. So, we decided to have an electrician measure the amount of current in our marina. But no one seems to know what an acceptable level is. Are there any standards set for this? Our findings:

6/10/10-19.8 mv and 52.mv (different locations)
8/12/10-33.8mv and 82.5mv
9/17/10-25.2mv and 44.8mv
We plan one more reading after all boats are out of the water. Can you shed light on this test and whether we’re within normal, safe range?

Jim Minnich
Marblehead, OH
Don Casey: Voltage between the 120V AC grounding socket and the water should be zero. Any reading other than zero indicates a leak. If your electrician will switch the scale to amps, he or she can measure the magnitude of the current leak. If the leak is DC, any reading above 10mA is damaging the underwater components of your tenant boats. However, the fault may well be a boat in the marina rather than the marina wiring. Identify the source by plugging in (or unplugging) one boat at a time. Theoretically alternating current should not contribute to corrosion, but AC leakage into the water can be lethal for swimmers, particularly in fresh water. Stay with this until you’ve identified the leak source and stemmed it.




Heres another

Quote:
Rampant Galvanic Action

I have a 2850 Bayliner, purchased new in 2001. We’ve had outdrive service performed annually, and at each haul-out the lower unit appeared as new. However, upon haul-out for outdrive service this year, the lower unit was corroded, with several deep pits and loss of metal, and the zincs were fouled with corrosion. The boat has always been moored in the same slip, under cover in Lake Washington fresh water. We’ve always used shore power to keep batteries charged, and to power a small heater/dehumidifier. When I checked the boat last winter, the heater/dehumidifier was off; I found the plug-in connection for shore power was dead at the dock. The marina replaced the plug, and the heater/dehumidifier worked fine thereafter.

When I saw the corrosion or electrolysis this spring at haulout, I became very concerned about the damage: much loss of metal on the thinner parts of the outdrive, lots of pits, and severe corrosion on the zincs. As part of the outdrive service, the zincs were replaced. Several weeks later I had another haul-out for bottom painting, and found the new zincs to again be severely corroded. It seems that whatever was causing the damage to the outdrive lower unit was also affecting the zincs. I tested the shorepower plug on the dock; it had no grounding. Other plugs on the dock had grounding, and none of their lower units appeared unusual. Did the lack of shore-power grounding lead to grounding into the lake via the outdrive, resulting in electrolysis?

Jeff Stevenson
Kirkland, WA
Don Casey: That seems to be exactly what’s happening. Some appliance on your boat — probably the battery charger — connects both to the shore-power AC and to the battery, which grounds to your engine. Any current “leakage” in a three-wire AC appliance should find its way to ground via the grounding wire. Without the grounding wire, that leakage flows through the DC ground to your engine and into the water via the outdrive, taking metal with it.

As bad as accelerated corrosion is, there’s worse. If the normally grounded metal case of your battery charger or any AC appliance aboard is or becomes energized, it represents an immediate and real risk of electrocution. In addition, the AC flowing into the water around your boat due to missing or disconnected grounding can kill a swimmer, and the problem is made more dangerous in fresh water. Unplug your boat immediately and talk to your marina management, with the term “liability” in your conversation. While they get the outlet wired correctly, buy yourself an outlet tester (around $10 locally or from Amazon) and check this outlet and every outlet you use for both proper ground and proper polarity every time before you plug in. (You’ll need an adaptor to plug a tester into a standard shore power outlet. If you continue to leave your boat plugged in, you should consider installing a galvanic isolator.)



this can be found here http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2011/february/ask.asp

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'14 Cruisers 380 Express "Simon Sez"
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 Post subject: Re: Corrosion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:22 am 
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268 Vista

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:49 am
Posts: 4989
Location: West Michigan
Those are some good ideas. But the girls' boat is in rack storage and not plugged in to shore power I assume. If they do leave there boat in the water at different marina's, then the possibility of current leakage is there when they are plugged into shore power.

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 Post subject: Re: Corrosion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:07 am
Posts: 815
Location: Freeland, MI
I guess I didn't take the rack stored to mean its corroding when its stored. Is that even possible? There is no path to ground when in the rack whether plugged in or not. I just assumed she meant getting worse over time, like when its in the water.

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Jeff

'14 Cruisers 380 Express "Simon Sez"
Merc 8.2 Mag MPI 380
DTS B3X, (x2) Axius Premier


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'08 V318
Merc 350 Mag MPI 300
DTS Seacore, B3 (x2)

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 Post subject: Re: Corrosion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:39 pm 
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268 Vista

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:49 am
Posts: 4989
Location: West Michigan
I figured the same thing. It should not corrode when not in the water.

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 Post subject: Re: Corrosion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:42 pm 
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Starfish

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:51 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Port St. Joe, FL
First off, thanks for the replies. We've got VP's. The boat is in the water about 2 weekends out of the month. We actually had some pics that the broker sent us before we bought it and we compared it to the pics I took on Saturday. Doesn't look like its gotten any worse. Its possible all the corrosion happened when it was sitting in the water after being taken by the bank. We just want to make sure it doesn't get any worse. We will eventually replace the outdrives but we want to make sure we stop what's causing it.
We changed the anodes on the engine but we haven't changed the ones on the sterndrives. We weren't able to get them in the town that we keep the boat. I haven't been able to find them online. The ones I'm finding online look like they might go between the prop and the drive but that's not what we have.
Does anyone have an Active corrosion protection system? How do those work?

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Monica
gulls@play
Vista 288


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 Post subject: Re: Corrosion
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:49 pm 
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268 Vista

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:49 am
Posts: 4989
Location: West Michigan
You can find your anodes here.

http://www.boatzincs.com/

A couple of choices for you:
http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/52-G30.htm

We have this sytem on our boat.
http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/PM-22034.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Corrosion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:58 am 
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Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 12:31 pm
Posts: 2108
Location: Chester, UK
Our boat has the VP standard active corrosion protection system fitted; it seems to work very well, the anodes last for years ( or at least 2-3 6 month seasons). If our next boat doesn't have one, I'll fit one. They have a sensing electrode and an active electrode; they measure the electrical potential in the vicinity of the drive and if a dangerous level (in terms of corrosion) is detected, it applies a correcting potential to bring the environment to a safe level. The control units have leds which indicate how hard the unit is working and of course they need to be wired up to a permanent +ve supply.

Your anodes need to be electrically connected (via the bolts/ star washers) to the outdrive, or else they do nothing to protect it; I always check continuity on mine before each season with a multimeter.

Also, all the individual castings (plus the clamps on the bellows) are interconnected by bonding wires (so parts not directly fitted with an anode are in electrical contact with them and protected). Each season I check the continuity between all the castings.

The prop hubs are protected by the outdrive/ transom shield anodes, the stainless props are not (and can suffer from crevice corrosion)

Graham


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 Post subject: Re: Corrosion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:09 pm 
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Starfish

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:51 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Port St. Joe, FL
Cap'n and Morgan,
How hard is the system you have to install? And where would it be installed? You don't happen to have a picture do you?

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Monica
gulls@play
Vista 288


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 Post subject: Re: Corrosion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 12:31 pm
Posts: 2108
Location: Chester, UK
A galvanic isolator will only help protect from corrosion when you're connected to shore power. It is fitted into the ground circuitry betwen the inlet and the main panel.

Graham


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 Post subject: Re: Corrosion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:03 pm 
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268 Vista

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:49 am
Posts: 4989
Location: West Michigan
Graham is correct. Our boat is in a slip for 6 months per year, and does not come out of the water until Fall layup. The GI will only help if you are addicted to shore power. Mine are installed in the port side of the engine compartment, close to the batteries and switches. Sorry, no pictures. They are not difficult to install.

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2000 Four Winns 268 Vista
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 Post subject: Re: Corrosion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:50 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Western Michigan
I had issues with galvanic corrosion on my boat. I installed a galvanic isolator and then
Magnesium anodes. When I switched all of the anodes to magnesium, the corrosion
stopped. Magnesium is 20% more anodic then Zinc. Prior to switching, my zinc anodes didn't
sacrifice.
She should test her green wire on her shore power cord and check the back of the shore
power plug on her boat.
Dan

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 Post subject: Re: Corrosion
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:25 pm 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
Posts: 2444
Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
You use magnesium anodes in fresh water, zinc in salt water.

Zincs are cheap. I always order at least two sets from Boatzincs.com (their service and support is fantastic). That way I've got extras on board should they be needed. My inboard prop shafts tend to toss the damned things off too easily. Now when I have the diver come clean the hull he can replace the zincs right then and there, saves him a trip.

The key is to make sure there's a good electrical circuit through all external metal points under the water. Use a volt meter (set to measure ohms) and make sure there's continuity between all the points. There should be next to no resistance between them and the main grounding lugs inside the engine compartment. If you find a point that measures differently then start by cleaning where the grounding wires for it are connected. Sometimes it's just a matter of some corrosion between the screw post and the wire lug. If that doesn't help then check the resistance of the wire itself. But it is possible for a wire to get corroded inside the insulation. This will increase the wire's resistance and that will make the anode less effective. Always use marine-grade wire for this sort of stuff, and follow ABYC practices for the connections (as in, right color insulation, gauge and connection methods).

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 Post subject: Re: Corrosion
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:46 pm
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Location: San Diego, CA
Monica,

For a boat that's in the water 2 weekends out of the month (and possibly not plugged into shore power during those times?), I'm not sure I'd worry about galvanic isolators at this point. I'd replace the zincs and just keep an eye on things.

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